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Really? Sober people don't rape or become victims of rape?
Great. In that one line you have just made Clementine's point for her. With you a serving officer too. Shame on you.
If you are drunk, and get raped, then no-one but the rapist is to blame. It really is that simple. Sure, being sober might have meant that you didn't put yourself into a dangerous position in the first place but the fact remains that the rapist still took advantage of that.
The only person to blame for committing a crime is the criminal.
Now obviously I'm not comparing the crime of rape to that of speeding etc but the principle of the perpetrator is often the same. They see little or nothing wrong with it, consider it 'victimless' ("she just needed a good f***ing to loosen her up" etc) or think they can get away with it. This could also apply (as politically incorrect as it is) to those from certain cultures where women are viewed as second class citizen with few if any rights.
Recently a tv campaign showed a bloke raping a woman whilst another image of himself watched what was happening from behind a glass wall. The 'rapist' version of himself obviously got on with it, seemingly oblivious to her protests whilst the 'watcher' was banging on the glass shouting at 'himself' to stop. I found that to be particularly effective.
I would like that to be completely clear in this set of adverts, which it isn't, hence the contention.
I did too.
Ding ding, we have a winner!
Way to miss the point.
From reading my previous posts you should know I was talking about accidents e.t.c. as an answer to can being sober be preventative which is why I gave a real life example of something I have come across.
Not once have I said a rape victim is to blame, so shame on you for putting words where they aren't.
ALL I have said is you are less likely to become a victim of crime/accident or less likely to be a perpetrator of a crime if you are sober.
It's entirely possible for someone to regret an event that is not their fault.
Again, missing the point I was making. I'm an advocate for self control. When you lose self-control there is a greater risk of an event with negative consequences happening. Some of those consequences will be entirely out of your control, such as being assaulted or raped, and NOT ONCE have I said anyone but the criminal should be blamed for that.
The point I was making before you rudely assumed I was being an asshat was that most of the negative consequences can be avoided. Things like passing out on a park bench, or in a puddle of your own sick. Stumbling out into traffic, glassing people in the face, going back with someone or doing something else YOU would regret.
Some things are down to personal choice, and my intepretation of the adverts was that if you make a personal choice that is severely clouded by the effects of alcohol, chances are it won't be a good choice.
As whowhere rightly points out, people come at it from different angles. That doesn't mean that everyone is right. It doesn't mean that everyone is wrong, either. In fact, everyone could be right whilst simultaneously holding seemingly contradictory positions.
But in my experience whenever there is a discussion on rape, unless everyone is coming from the same perspective, everyone ends up getting defensive and annoyed or upset. It's almost like people want to be offended, so go out of their way to misinterpret what other people say.
Either you think someone is saying you're a slapper asking to get raped if you so much as walk outside, or conversely you think that someone is arguing that they should be able to go to the most dangerous area in town, eat some temazepam with a vodka chaser, pass out and then need not have any concern at all for their own wellbeing - as that's other people's responsibility.
Both are comical exaggeration and misrepresentations of what might otherwise be good arguments.
It's a very fair point. I'm fairness it probably also means having some in that group who either retain their sense of judgement whilst shitfaced, or who don't get as hammered.
Absolutely, this happens with just about every online discussion I've ever seen on rape and this one is no exception.
I'd be interested to know what the stated aim behind the campaign in question was. If it was simply "we want to reduce the number of rapes" then asking people to not make themselves vulnerable seems like a fairly sensible way of going about things. I don't think its corollary is that the rapist isn't entirely to blame. I appreciate it doesn't tackle the larger questions of why people rape and how to stop them, but maybe that's asking a bit much.
Thankyou lordy.
I still can appreciate people's views about making yourself less vulnerable by being wary about how much you drink but this set of adverts doesn't deliver that one clear, message. What they're doing is being offensively lazy by using the exact same wording to both victims and the attacker. ie. Dont do something you're gonna *regret*.
Already pointed out that it's unhelpful to even suggest that being raped is something the victim should 'regret' because it directs blame to the victim.
And with regards to the rapist, the word 'regret' trivialises rape itself. I regret eating too many strawberry bon bons - I regret forcing myself sexually on another person and raping them. Hm
.. Have they got rid of that website and campaign now? Tried clicking it but it isn't found.. Maybe they are actually revising it.
If I say "Be careful running with the scissors, you might break a vase or stab yourself" I'm not saying that they're equally bad outcomes.
I'm not sure you can avoid the regret in some cases. We are talking about the dangers of drinking in this thread, so I would have thought if you got drunk, and then were raped you'd have some heavy regret like issues.
Perhaps. But to use the word 'regret' so freely on a poster aimed at victims of rape without any other explanation as to what they actually mean is at its best irresponsible and damaging.
But you'll find worser things like Judge Wild stated, 'If she doesn't want it, she only has to keep her legs shut', and Judge Sutcliffe directed a jury to be sceptical about a rape victim's evidence, saying, 'It is known that women and small boys are liable to be untruthful and invent stories.' and another women whose car broke down so she tried to get help was told she was guilty and it was her own fault she was raped.
It's just a part of life everyone will have their own views like people think Muslims are angry and violent when some are but not like every other person on other!
Quick reality check?
At what point is there anything to suggest that this poster is aimed at victims of rape? Pretty much by definition surely it's aimed at preventing people becoming victims of rape.
I'm hope the anti campaign people are pleased, it looks like they've succeeded in getting a shocking and hard hitting campaign about the dangers of going out and getting hammered taken down. Well done. Definitely a good result there then.
You're right but let's not pretend its 'hard hitting' message of the dangers surrounding drink and therefore a 'regrettable' evening isn't going to offend anyone including victims of rape.
I am pleased, very pleased. Let's hope a clearer, less idiotic campaign replaces it.
Definite win there.
Contrary to popular belief, there's nothing wrong with offending people occasionally if there's a good reason behind it.
Not sure perpetuating the idea that the victim is somehow to blame is a good idea.
I fail to see a way that you can put across the message that going out and getting hammered is making yourself very vulnerable, without someone claiming that you're perpetuating the idea that the victim is to blame.
I really do think it's a shame that the campaign has been pulled.