If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
That's just gobblygook. However, attempting to decipher what I think you mean I think you are saying that countries with economic inequality are not as succesful as those with greater equality, (I assume you are talking inequlaity not distribution of economics, which is a bit like say distribution of histories or distribution of physics as economics is the study of the economy)
Your firstly arguing it doesn't matter "it doesn't make a country better or worse" then less than 20 words later you are saying it does matter "I see our monarchy as one of the many wastes of cash and time in this country" which seems a case of trying to have you cake and eating it. Especially as the waste of cash is one of the weakest arguments given it costs 62p per person http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10507329 and most of those costs would have to be met anyway (assuming you're not going to let places like Buckingham Palace fall into disrepair and you're going to have a head of state who meets foreign leaders).
Wales is part of the UK and support for the monarchy runs about 80% so anecdotes about how unpopular they are in relatively small parts don't invalidate the argument they're supported (and in Wales support is around 60% against 29% who support a republic , so a fair majority of monarchists)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8124065.stm
Also, 62 pence per head of the population is a hell of a lot of money.
I do recognise that the Queen has carried out her duties with a great sense of responsibility and grace, and that she is a great role model for the ‘work until you drop’ ethic that politicians are currently pushing. Trouble is, most people don’t have a job that takes them around the world to enjoy the best of everything wherever they travel. In fact, an increasing number of people don't have a job at all!
In the 90’s, public opinion for the Royals was at an all-time low, but they have pulled back some public support since then. I think that’s partly because some members of the Royal Family learned to keep their mouths shut in relation to various things. While the Queen has carried off her duties with aplomb and diligence, most of her relatives have fallen well short of such standards.
I think the Queen has also been able to win back some support because public opinion and respect for politicians has nose-dived in the last 10 years, and remains at an all-time low, i.e. a lot of people seem to have a need to hang on to a sense of their place in the hierarchy and show deference to those at the top of the pile. As politicians have fallen into disrepute, so the Queen has attracted such support.
One of the pro Royalty arguments is that the Queen brings a lot of tourism to London, but if Buck House was turned into a museum with wax models of the Royals past and present, I think the revenue would go up.
The Queen reminds some people of what a great nation Britain once was, but the reality is that she is a little old lady with a rather severe look on her face who comes from a small island off Europe that isn’t doing very well any more because most of our manufacturing industries have been closed down and the jobs once created by such industry have been exported to China.
When I see all the pomp and ceremony, I often wonder if such regalia provides a short escape from reality for those that line up to ‘doff their caps’ with such enthusiasm and admiration for someone living a lifestyle that is planets away from their own.
When the Queen goes, I suspect the clock will start ticking re the demise of the Royals – whilst they may hang their hopes on the appeal of the younger Royals, I can’t see that many young people being ready to identify with such wealth, privilege, and glamour. Why would they, when they live in a society that promotes self-reliance while offering it’s young people so little in the way of resources to build up such a lifestyle?
If Tony Blair has his way, he'll become the President of the United States of Europe, then we'll all have someone to throw tomatoes at!
Jed
You tend to use the term 'success' ambiguously. I was using the term 'distribution' to mean 'distribution of wealth' which would be considered a hallmark of equality? You talked about the USA being successful and earlier referred to some countries in Scandinavia. The USA's wealth inequality for example, is one of the highest in the world's bigger economies.
Whether a country has a monarchy or not, does not make a huge difference alone, as other factors, such as economics, the role of religion, aspects of the state make a difference too. It's not about isolating in absolute, whether or not a country is made better in entirety, by a monarch (as it appeared you were getting at, when you referred to Scandinavian countries and said republicans can't provide an alternative).
One of the many wastes of cash, but I'm not so naive as to think if we got rid of the monarchy tomorrow, we'd have a happy society and no poverty. I just think it's a waste of cash, just as I feel politicians shouldn't get second homes, the Trident replacement is a waste of cash and so on...
Removing a monarch tomorrow could direct the cash in to building hospitals, or it could line the pockets of businessmen or be put in to waging a new war... Again, it depends on how its distributed (does that make more sense?).
re Wales: The survey was of almost 1000 people. What kind of people would be taking part do you think? Is this kind of research more likely to attract participants from an affluent part of Monmouthshire, or from a more deprived area such as Rhyl? I'm only speaking from my own experience, of people in a working class area, granted...
Especially as If I could have my 62p spent on an unelected head of state, or to have that 62p put towards helping somebody from a less affluent background, or with a health condition, or to schools, I know where I'd put it...
Even though it's 'only' 62p, it all adds up. It's money at the end of the day and whilst it won't put most of us out of pocket, it still could be better spent elsewhere. The queen has a £310 million fortune, around £100 million worth of art and is number 262 on the Sunday Times Rich List!
I don't understand why people are happy to pay any money to her... I'd at least rather give my cash to an elected head of state of my choosing, or anybody's choosing if they were elected.
I see the Queen as not a great part of the problem, but one of many problems, as I've said before... I won't fly the flag of republicanism, or lick her arse either.
We could then use the money to downsize the deficit.
Simples!
Jed
So its boils down to 62p* a year and other than that it doesn't make a real bit of difference, because other things shape society. It's hardly a clincher for republicanism...
Look, I know you want a socialist society, but the main barrier to that isn't the Queen but her people. I'm saying that I've not heard any good arguments for getting rid of the UK monarchy and I don't think a good argument is one that is arguing that the Queen is an impedient for a society hardly anyone wants and that by getting rid of the monarchy we don't suddenly all want to become a nicer version of the USSR (or even Sweden).
* and as I said if the Queen goes that money will still be spent mainly as it is now, upkeep of palaces and paying the costs of State Visits
I think tyou missed the point, i swore an oath to the queeen and my country, it cant be argued whether i would be in an armed forces if the name was changed, it still stands that i have sworn my oath.
Opposite to that one has politician, who I think most people have lost faith in. Even the most honest politician makes you want to check your pocket for your mobile phone... We've got expenses scandals, and recession, and phone hacking cases and paying to see the PM, fucking kitchen suppers, and saying to keep a jerry can in your garage. Who fucking has a garage these days?!
Her majesty, and the royal family at large, are steady and stable. They can be given allegiance because they can do nothing with it.
Suppose that the queen went crazy tomorrow, and announced something like that she wanted every citizen whose vision is not perfect executed. What's the law on that, would it have to happen?
The lines you hear in films and tv shows along the lines of "When it comes down to it, its all about the man to your left and the man to your right, brothers in arms" does actually ring very true.
Just as an interesting aside, we actually make money off the royals, because of the 'royal assets' which the revenues are collected by the government, put into a kitty, then a small amount of that is given to the royals as an allowance.
Technically those assets are still legal property of the royal family, and if they wanted to end the 'special relationship' they could get the government to stop getting the revenues from them.
We would lose out about £90million off the top of my head.