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Bring on HS2?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
What is your opinion on the developments of HS2?

Do you want 32 billion pounds spent on a fast track train link?

Are any of you concerned about damaging our villages and wildlife in small areas?

Are you for or against?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure what to think of this, as its something I dont think I will ever have much use for.

    As for the environment, if we had followed and upheld every concern over the years, I firmly believe that we would still be stuck in the dark ages compared to the rest of the developed world.

    I'm not wholesale against this HS2 line, or even for it; though I will have to do further pondering when someone else (with better train knowledge) comes along and explains what £32bn could do in terms upgrading and making the current rail network better.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference HS1 used to make to my journeys in and out of London when I was in Canterbury was amazing. And that was a NICE freakin' train.

    I can't remember where HS2 is going (and I am too lazy to look), but I've sat on scummy trains between Newcastle and London for hours at a time and so I'm all for a nice, speedy upgrade to services up to the north.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference HS1 used to make to my journeys in and out of London when I was in Canterbury was amazing. And that was a NICE freakin' train.

    I can't remember where HS2 is going (and I am too lazy to look), but I've sat on scummy trains between Newcastle and London for hours at a time and so I'm all for a nice, speedy upgrade to services up to the north.

    If I could get a direct route from London to Newcastle I would be all for it.

    Vague route details here http://www.snag-against-hs2.org/system.asp
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Every person in the UK - man, woman and child - already shoulders nearly £16k because of our governments' complete inability to comprehend tax and spend. £32 billion only works out at another £500 each. Chuck it on I say. And right through the greenbelt for good measure.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Every person in the UK - man, woman and child - already shoulders nearly £16k because of our governments' complete inability to comprehend tax and spend. £32 billion only works out at another £500 each. Chuck it on I say. And right through the greenbelt for good measure.

    I always thought that when people quote the £16k per person, its just to highlight exactly how massive the debt it, not actually how much a family themselves owe?

    Just remember that there was just as much uproar and complaints against cars and even steam trains. Way back in the day, it was thought that the argument against stream trains was that seeing one would make a pregnant woman miscarry.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't see the point in a country as small as the UK. So 30 minutes will be saved between London and Birmingham, what exactly is the point? You'd think for 32 billion quid they'd be able to halve that, especially considering a car journey to London from Birmingham only takes a couple of hours anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    especially considering a car journey to London from Birmingham only takes a couple of hours anyway.

    more like
    Whowhere wrote: »
    especially considering a car journey to London from Birmingham *SHOULD* only take a couple of hours anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    I always thought that when people quote the £16k per person, its just to highlight exactly how massive the debt it, not actually how much a family themselves owe?

    Yeah, whoever the hell we're still borrowing money from doesn't have an IOU with 'G-Raffe = £16k' written on it. It's just a way of trying to comprehend how much £1 trillion is. Did you know that if you paid off the debt at a quid a second, without interest, it'd take you 30,000 years?
    Just remember that there was just as much uproar and complaints against cars and even steam trains. Way back in the day, it was thought that the argument against stream trains was that seeing one would make a pregnant woman miscarry.

    I'm not against HS2, per se. I just reckon there's better ways of spunking thirty-two billion quid - 1000 years (no interest) at a quid a second, if you're interested. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with you on that point, like I said above I'd like to find out exactly what £32bn could do in terms of improving the rail network as it is.

    I'd be more at ease if rather than a little bit of HS2, they had (not so very)HS2 which was more wide spread. Perhaps might not knock 20% off a journey from one single place to another, but I'm a great believer that people will be more satisfied if we can make a 5% improvement accross the whole country, not necessartily with speed, but punctuality, repairs et al.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not against HS2, per se. I just reckon there's better ways of spunking thirty-two billion quid - 1000 years (no interest) at a quid a second, if you're interested. :D

    .....tell me more.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    theres plenty of train services could be vastly improved without making a tgv to fucking birmingham
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference HS1 used to make to my journeys in and out of London when I was in Canterbury was amazing. And that was a NICE freakin' train.

    Totally agree with this and, having recently read the City Council minutes reviewing the impact, I'm aware that the economic impact has been okay locally. Nothing stunning though. Let's face it though, the only reason HS1 exists is because of the Channel Tunnel link, not because it was built in it's own right.

    Personally, if we are going to spend £32bn then I'd rather it was to improve the existing services rather than create a new one. I cannot see that 30 minutes change in time is really worth it. The costs are inflated to avoid political problems for the Tories too.

    I can't remember where HS2 is going (and I am too lazy to look), but I've sat on scummy trains between Newcastle and London for hours at a time and so I'm all for a nice, speedy upgrade to services up to the north.[/QUOTE]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if we are going to spend £32bn

    and lets face it... it'll actually be over budget... most of the governments ideas are...

    I personally think that it's a waste of money, land and time. They should use that money for other things... NHS, education, public sector jobs... I know building the HS2 will create some jobs, but I also don't have confidence that they'll be British jobs.... like the trains contracted to be made in Germany whilst Bombardier struggled.
  • plugitinplugitin Noob Posts: 2,197 The Mix Regular
    Normally I'd be in support of this, but I'm going to be honest: I'm not. I can't ever imagine that people's mindsets will change in the way I've experienced in Germany to the extent that a large number of people would commute Manchester to London or vice versa on a daily basis. It's meant to improve mobility et al, yeah, but it's going to put train prices up even further thus actually reducing the number of people who can actually afford to take these trains.
    I'm all for improving the infrastructure, but what about some more tracking at squeeze points? Some more carriages where they're needed?
    I honestly don't see the UK as being somewhere that would benefit from such a high-speed line like France and Germany have done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    plugitin wrote: »
    Normally I'd be in support of this, but I'm going to be honest: I'm not. I can't ever imagine that people's mindsets will change in the way I've experienced in Germany to the extent that a large number of people would commute Manchester to London or vice versa on a daily basis. It's meant to improve mobility et al, yeah, but it's going to put train prices up even further thus actually reducing the number of people who can actually afford to take these trains.
    I'm all for improving the infrastructure, but what about some more tracking at squeeze points? Some more carriages where they're needed?
    I honestly don't see the UK as being somewhere that would benefit from such a high-speed line like France and Germany have done.

    HS1 was actually not a whole lot more than the regular prices in and out of Canterbury (I think with my railcard it worked out at like £2 more), and reduced the time by at least half an hour, sometimes up to three times that (I love trains that stop at every single station). Normal prices didn't go up, because actually a lot of the people using the trains out of Canterbury weren't necessarily going to London anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Technocracy is cool :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and lets face it... it'll actually be over budget... most of the governments ideas are...

    which isnt helped if we give contracts to the more expensive options such as
    like the trains contracted to be made in Germany whilst Bombardier struggled.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Speaking as someone who is really good at Transport Tycoon and should therefore be considered a mass transport expert, high speed rail was always the poor step before Maglev. That's the good stuff.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Speaking as someone who is really good at Transport Tycoon and should therefore be considered a mass transport expert, high speed rail was always the poor step before Maglev. That's the good stuff.

    You get my first ever POTW nomination. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm mainly in favour of HS2, partly because it will relieve overcrowding on the West Coast main line, and partly because the trainspotter in me wants shiny, fast trains.
    However, I am concerned that the trains are going to be built abroad, and yet more British tax money is going to the giant corporations of Japan and Europe.
    Just like with the Edinburgh tram project!
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