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How do you save money for the NHS?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    It would seem the reality you have portrayed that they just turn up to work to write numbers in books is just sad in that case, when we have such a need for great and efficient management to have just hired a load of desk jockeys who haven't got a clue. But surely then the problem is not the concept of good management, but rather the utter failure of the government and the NHS to recruit anyone effectual into that role.

    I applaud your recognition for better management. I don't think anyone would disagree with your logic about smart allocation of limited resources. That is, after all, what managers in the NHS are there for. (I was being a little flippant, when I said they were only there to manage budgets and targets.) Some are very good at their job. However, in terms of actual patient care, trying to manage individual cases through an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy, usually results in delayed treatment and increased costs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Everyone regardless of income getting free scripts fr expensive drugs doesn't make sense to me but ...I benefit personally.
    But a shit load of money could be saved here.
    Or just by making the Scots and the Welsh pay £7.60 like the rest of us. That amount for a course of medication doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me.

    It won't save a single penny towards the £20bn saving required. Both Scots and Welsh NHS are part of devolvement and so do not come under the "NHS" budget that the media talk about. It's why they have free scripts whilst England doesn't.

    Worth noting that whilst they are getting those free both NHS Scot and Wales are having to find the money from another part of their budget.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't see this argument personally. Speaking as one who has worked in the NHS, this isn't what "managers" do. Most are simply concerned with budgets and targets.

    I'd taken offence at that if I didn't think you were being flippant :p
    And, if you need to be referred to a specialist, whose opinion would you rather trust: a medically qualified doctor with experience of the local specialist consultants, or a non-medical pen-pusher?

    This isn't what I do either. I don't decide where patients go, the GPs (and nurses/physios etc) have individual referring rights based on their clinical knowledge.

    I don't allocate patients, I don't interrupt the referral process, I don't delay things. I *do* however pay the bills, I *do* point out to GPs that they seem to refer many more patients than their colleague and therefore the cost to the NHS of their actions is much higher (usually without benefit of fitter patients), I *do* make sure that we are getting what we are paying for and that someone isn't taking the piss... for example.

    And yes, I make sure that targets are achieved because I think they are important. For some reason people have got the impression that a target exists purely to for the benefit of having a target to make managers happy. I'd happily lose all of them.

    We never used to have them, before Labour. You know when people waited 36 hours on a trolley in an A&E corridor or waited 18 months just to get an outpatient appointment, then waited for an X-Ray then another 18 months to have their operation. Of people waited months to see a consultant in order to get a cancer diagnosis, during which time their tumour became inoperable.

    Looking at the targets we have now, it's very difficult to see any which aren't driven by public expectation or by clinical need...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    It won't save a single penny towards the £20bn saving required. Both Scots and Welsh NHS are part of devolvement and so do not come under the "NHS" budget that the media talk about. It's why they have free scripts whilst England doesn't.

    Worth noting that whilst they are getting those free both NHS Scot and Wales are having to find the money from another part of their budget.

    Scots don't get free scripts - they pay £3. They do however get free eye tests.
    On a related note, I'm not sure quite how much this will save, but maybe a review of the exempt conditions? I know people who have underactive thyroids, or even diabetes and epilepsy, who are otherwise in good health and working full time, yet get all their prescriptions free. It would be fairer, IMO, if they only got medication related to their condition free, and paid the standard charge for everything else. I'm not sure how this would work on a practical level, maybe as simple as an extra box for doctors to tick on the form?

    Where do you draw the line of this? Some people with epilepsy may injure themselves after having a fit - would they get the treatment for that for free?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It would be interesting to know what the Scottish and Welsh do without in order to get free/cheap prescriptions. I suspect it isn't anything.

    I also realise that this money is divvied up by the Scottish and Welsh assemblies, but don't they get that money from England anyway....?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    I also realise that this money is divvied up by the Scottish and Welsh assemblies, but don't they get that money from England anyway....?

    Examples:

    Scotland - has the 18-week "referral to treatment" aka RTT (i.e. from GP appointment to operation) waiting time achieved by December next year

    Wales - the RTT target is 95% of patients must have maximum wait of 26 weeks

    England - maximum RTT for 100% of patients is 18 weeks and has been for a few years now. In fact it is a legal right for patients.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Where do you draw the line of this? Some people with epilepsy may injure themselves after having a fit - would they get the treatment for that for free?

    Doctor's discretion, I'd think.

    Although the whole issue of the exempt conditions is a bit contentious, IMO. I'm not sure people should be exempt on the grounds of condition alone. How do you decide which illnesses qualify?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff wrote: »
    Doctor's discretion, I'd think.

    Although the whole issue of the exempt conditions is a bit contentious, IMO. I'm not sure people should be exempt on the grounds of condition alone. How do you decide which illnesses qualify?

    This is what I don't get either. I think with the exception of cancer, the exemptions were decided in the 1960s or something.
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