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Prophet Mohammed - now in a bear suit...

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    This is a discussion about the cartoon South Park and Comedy Central's censorship. That's why it's a discussion of a cartoon.

    Thank you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Archerb wrote: »
    My point was and is, that countering those who go and say "paki s...." is fine, but also think of those who face not just hurtful words but actual violence because everyday muslims, living, breathing normal people like you and I, end up physically attacking folks for relatively trivial issues.

    As are the rules here, you'll need to start providing direct links to reputable news sources for the claims your starting to make. It's one thing to talk of personal experiences but it's something else to start making claims like this.

    That is beyond personal experience, so please do provide a link.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    As are the rules here, you'll need to start providing direct links to reputable news sources for the claims your starting to make. It's one thing to talk of personal experiences but it's something else to start making claims like this.

    That is beyond personal experience, so please do provide a link.

    Jim, are personal experiences allowed?

    I have had two acquaintances, both of whom broke off relationships with muslim women, because of getting threats from family members and in one case being asked to convert. They took those threats seriously.

    A recent incident - observed just a few days back, after Friday prayers, a mob descended on commercial establishments, because a certain newspaper some darn place had published an article on Taslima Nasreen, a muslim author, criticizing the Burkha.

    http://despardes.com/?p=14490

    The threat of violence is ever pervasive. Its stifling, its scary.

    The amount of incidents I have personally observed...which is why I say this is a two way street. In a certain US city some time back, I was accosted by two African American gentleman who wanted me to convert. I politely refused and started walking off, when one asked me if I believed in the Quran... i said i did not, i had my own faith and was quite content. I was then subject to a torrent of statements about my faith and how it was wrong.

    Which is why I noted, in this world we live in, the lines of communication have made these extreme memes very common.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I fear you cant read.
    I am not DEFFENDING ISLAM!! Merely pointing out that people shouldnt slate another religion when we were discussing a cartoon!! :banghead:

    My personal experience and my job make it very difficult for me to tolerate this kind of bogus crap. I dont care what Muslims do, christians do or anybody for that matter, your entitled to your opinion about Islam, But dont forget, Muslims will read this, and may take offence. This should be a site where everyone is made to feel welcome, Not like they are outsiders or anything!
    My point was this, pay attention now because i wont repeat it again!!

    SOME muslims will take offence, SOME wont. SOME will resort to violence, SOME Wont!!

    And as for muslims attacking people? Do you not think people attack them?
    PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AGAIN- i have spent 23 hours in A&E with a family friend, Muslim- Libyan, We had gone out to a club, having a nice night, some youths from wales walk in, walk straight over to the friend, "what you doin in ere paki?" And proceed to kick the living daylight out of him until he was fighting for life in hospital. Now DONT try and make out Muslims are the only bad people in the world, their not. theres good and bad in every country, religion etc etc!!

    I am not a participant of the site i linked to you earlier, I found it whilst i was in work and thought it might prove a point that not all muslims want violence as a result of the cartoon, you know the thing were meant to be discussing?
    Like ive said, Ive lived in an Islamic country for 6 months, And havent experienced the "extreme" side of Islam yet, although i am fully aware of anticts from the past. Ill be sure to look out for it though. Im not deffending Islam, or saying i want to be a part of the religion, I Just dont think its fair to slate a religion or the people who are part of it, and I especially dont think its fair to assume all people are the same, were not and thats what makes this world interesting.
    PLEASE dont post another hour long essay :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Please dont post another hour long essay"

    - Dont worry, I wont. Given the number of angry icons you emote, in what should otherwise be a mere discussion, I fear I am the one hitting my head on a wall!

    However, I will respond to this:
    But dont forget, Muslims will read this, and may take offence. This should be a site where everyone is made to feel welcome, Not like they are outsiders or anything!

    Do you seriously think they cant stand up for themselves and respond to folks like I, if they think they are hard done by? Seriously now this is getting ridiculous..
    My point was this, pay attention now because i wont repeat it again!!

    Gee, thanks..
    SOME muslims will take offence, SOME wont. SOME will resort to violence, SOME Wont!!

    But those that do, are a problem. If not for you perhaps then for me at the very least!
    And as for muslims attacking people? Do you not think people attack them?
    PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AGAIN- i have spent 23 hours in A&E with a family friend, Muslim- Libyan, We had gone out to a club, having a nice night, some youths from wales walk in, walk straight over to the friend, "what you doin in ere paki?" And proceed to kick the living daylight out of him until he was fighting for life in hospital.

    Those folks should be jailed. But since we are on personal experiences, and thats kosher, I have been on the recieving side of enough abuse from Muslims as well...so pardon me, if I am not quite as likely to dismiss their likelihood for violence.

    What you describe above is a typical case of racism. It could have been an Indian with you, a non Muslim, and he could have got targeted as well.

    However, the cases I mentioned where were folks of the same race as oneself, deliberately, targeted others who were of a different religion. And more than the occasional beating, it is the constant abuse suffered on account of belonging to a different faith, that is stifling..
    Now DONT try and make out Muslims are the only bad people in the world, their not. theres good and bad in every country, religion etc etc!!

    I dont disagree there with you at all. However, the amount of violence I have seen, provoked by mullahs citing Islam as the cause, and willingly brought into by their followers, leaves me fairly concerned about the religion and its adherents. I am sorry that upsets you, but it is the truth, and I do wish it were not so and that we lived in a peaceful, more equitable world, no sarcasm intended
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Merely pointing out that people shouldnt slate another religion when we were discussing a cartoon!! "

    If the current state of the religion is such, that a mere cartoon can incite threats of violence, cleverly disguised but still, is it not worrisome?

    http://screencrave.com/2010-04-20/south-park-creators-threatened-over-muhammad-bear/
    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/21/south.park.islamic.reaction/index.html

    If not, then clearly we disagree on this aspect at the very least.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And some people in my own religion concern me, Nobody is perfect and there are some nut jobs in every religion, But trust me on this one, their not all nutters.

    And that example of my friend was one of about 50 my friend, hence why im in the job im in, hence why im so pationate about what i do, hence why i dont like discrimination of any kind.

    Ive got friends of every race, religion , style , sexuality because im opening to everyone. I agree some Muslims do make problems etc, but we have this in every religion and country. Ive traveled, and seen it. Its unfortunate but its life. I cant say that every christian is a saint either, and neither can you. Ive met some of the most amazing people from every religion and I couldnt fault them, ive met some idiots too but so be it!

    My step dad, who is Muslim, Doesnt associate himself with any act of violence, terrorism etc because thats not what hes about, and his family and most the muslims ive met are the same.

    My boyfriend is muslim and isnt interested in converting me to be a muslim. Were both very open minded and religion isnt a problem.
    My mum and step dad the same.
    So yes, some muslims may think Islam is the bee's knees and be offended when you dont want to convert, just like the Jehovas whitness who tried to interest me in converting and proceeded to chase me down the street throwin handouts to me... Some people will do it some wont.
    If you saw my point, and realise, debating and arguing wont change what goes on, Not all people are the same, if someone gives you a reason to dislike them as a person- fine, but nobody should be disliked because of their religion and previous acts of nut jobs.
    I just wish people would be more tolerant of other people, religions etc... I see alot of hate in my job, and it depresses the hell out of me, Not just towards muslims, but to gays, races, Every religion, everything, you know?... Im just not very tolerant of Closed minded responses, mainly because of that.

    Ive already said previously i dont agree with the people resorting to violence and yes it worries me alot, But thats just a group of people, Not all of them. My muslim step father watching the news said "thats just rediculous. Fighting over a bloody cartoon- idiots"
    I dont disagree with you that its far fetched to resort to violence over a cartoon, My point is that not all muslims will or even want to, or care about the matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By the way why are the English Defence League who protest against Islamic extremism branded racist and fascist when they have made it clear they are only protesting against Islamic extremists and have nothing against ordinary muslims. They also have black and asian people amongst in their ranks.

    I have noticed that every time the EDL hold a demonstration there are counter demonstrations by anti-racist groups, why?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because they're a far right group. They have their roots in football hooliganism (look up Casuals United), they have been recorded chanting "we hate muslims," several journalists have received death threats from their members after covering their marches, their website was created by a BNP activist (although the BNP have since banned any of their members from being affiliated with them, because they think it reflects the party in a bad light, which is ironic), and in the Welsh Defence League's first demonstration, members were seen giving nazi salutes.

    Now there may be some members who are genuinely concerned about extremism and saw the EDL as a new non-racist way of getting their point across, but based on the roots of the party, and the conduct of the demonstrators, it is undoubtedly a far right group, even if (and it wouldn't surprise me) the founders intended it to be something else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because they're a far right group. They have their roots in football hooliganism (look up Casuals United), they have been recorded chanting "we hate muslims," several journalists have received death threats from their members after covering their marches, their website was created by a BNP activist (although the BNP have since banned any of their members from being affiliated with them, because they think it reflects the party in a bad light, which is ironic), and in the Welsh Defence League's first demonstration, members were seen giving nazi salutes.
    Maybe you should see this video clip then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKmzNpUBM4

    As an organisation the English Defence League is not racist, though it may have some individual members who are racist. But then so do other organistations like the football supporters association. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Goldsword wrote: »
    Maybe you should see this video clip then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKmzNpUBM4

    As an organisation the English Defence League is not racist, though it may have some individual members who are racist. But then so do other organistations like the football supporters association. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
    Window dressing. They're dodgy as fuck.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    This is a discussion about the cartoon South Park and Comedy Central's censorship. That's why it's a discussion of a cartoon.
    Oh, that's it! I'm suing this entire intolerant forum! :mad:
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