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legal aid against a university

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I dont really want to go into specific details because I feel a bit dodgy posting about it because it isn't really my case. My boyfriend has been through a pretty terrible ordeal with a university when applying to do a teacher training course. They messed up at various stages from not dealing with his application properly and sending it to the wrong department, ignoring repeated phone calls to arrange an interview and then the interview process itself was pretty unprofessional.. the reasons given to him for not getting in seem very dodgy too. he met all of the criteria given in the info at the application stage yet in his rejection letter one of the reasons given was that he needed experience in 3 very different schools (when the initial criteria said just one school) and was told to have more examples of fine art and reccomended to reapply next year.

it seems pretty obvious to me that because they messed up his application at the very begining by sending it to the wrong department and failing to arrange an interview with him so this makes me think that their course is fully booked so maybe they are covering their tracks. i realise im going to be biased as he's my boyfriend but having now gone through two appeals (which i think are very shady.. the appeals process was not even explained to him and purely through correspondance in a letter from him to the 1st appeal person and then a 2nd final appeal person) based on the letters he has written to them and the letters i looked at that he got back the responses are pretty insufficient and just seem to offer an apology for their initial screw-up and that they will ensure this doesnt happen again to another candidate.

anywho, my boyfriend is feeling pretty despodant but is determined to take them up. he is elligable for legal aid and is in contact with someone who specialises in education. i just wanted to know if anyone knows of anyone who has ever done anything like this before? it all seems pretty serious now, could it go to court? i just wanted to offer my boyfriend more support really.

it still seems beyond belief that the university in question has treated him this way, so a big MEH. thanks for reading :)

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure what he is wanting out of this really. I think you both need to take a step back and think about what you are doing.

    You say that the process wasn't followed. That could be true. On the other hand, it might not. Normally when you have a job interview, for example, there is no right to appeal at the end of it. If the other candidates are better than you, then it's tough. You suck it up, and get better, or try somewhere else, or both.

    You say he only has experience in one school and they rejected him because it would be better for him to get experience elsewhere. I don't really see how you can argue with that, it's a fair reason. Likewise if they felt his portfolio was short, that's a fair reason.

    That his application originally went to the wrong place is unfortunate, but I don't really see how that has a lot of bearing on the result of the interview. The facts seem to be that - regardless of where the application went - he did get an interview and he did not succeed at it.

    I think overall you would both be better off putting your energies into finding somewhere else to take the course, or developing him as a candidate.

    Also he needs to recoginise that it can be incredibly tough to get on to some teacher training courses, especially at the highly recognised institutions. When I applied for one a few years ago it was oversubscribed by 10 to 1.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that's a very naive post, Mist. Employers and universities quite often try to hide behind 'oh, you're not good enough, sorry' with interviews, to hide a multitude of mistakes and prejudices. They have a duty to follow the correct procedure for ITT recruitment and if they do not do so then you have a very strong complaint.

    Unfortunately there's no non-legal ombudsman who can look at complaints about recruitment- the Office of the Independent Adjudicator will not accept these complaints- so the only remedy is through court action. Universities know that 99% of people won't take it to court, so their mistakes go unpunished.

    As to whether he would get legal aid, that's a decision for his lawyer. They have to take into account the public interest when deciding whether to act on legal aid cases- i.e. does the claimant have a chance of victory? I can't really advise you on whether you do have a chance of victory and I'm pretty sure nobody else on here can either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ignoring repeated phone calls to arrange an interview

    You sure they weren't just busy or off sick?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mist wrote: »
    I'm not sure what he is wanting out of this really. I think you both need to take a step back and think about what you are doing.

    You say that the process wasn't followed. That could be true. On the other hand, it might not. Normally when you have a job interview, for example, there is no right to appeal at the end of it. If the other candidates are better than you, then it's tough. You suck it up, and get better, or try somewhere else, or both.

    You say he only has experience in one school and they rejected him because it would be better for him to get experience elsewhere. I don't really see how you can argue with that, it's a fair reason. Likewise if they felt his portfolio was short, that's a fair reason.

    That his application originally went to the wrong place is unfortunate, but I don't really see how that has a lot of bearing on the result of the interview. The facts seem to be that - regardless of where the application went - he did get an interview and he did not succeed at it.

    I think overall you would both be better off putting your energies into finding somewhere else to take the course, or developing him as a candidate.

    Also he needs to recoginise that it can be incredibly tough to get on to some teacher training courses, especially at the highly recognised institutions. When I applied for one a few years ago it was oversubscribed by 10 to 1.

    In the original criteria for this course it wasn't stipulated that you had to have experience in 3 schools, it just said experience in a school. The application going to the wrong place was a mishap but I don't think they helped it by ignoring repeated phone calls and answer phone messages and emails. It took weeks to actually speak to someone and by then I'm assuming the course was mostly filled up. As for his portfolio, there is no point trying to defend it because it's all down to opinion but the criteria does ask for industry experience and he has several years under his belt. I guess what I'm trying to say is that he DOES match the criteria and the feedback that they came back was not stipulated in the original criteria anyway which just seems to be a wish wash way of turning him away.

    My boyfriend is pretty pissed and determined to see this through because, although I know it would be naive to blame it all on the university and a pretty unfortunate case it all seems to lead into every mishap that has happened since he has been in the England. He lost his job for asking for a day off for the university interview, he wasn't signed into a contract at the time so can't do anything about it. Because of the university failing to get back to him he wasn't able to provide his landlord with a firm answer as to whether he would be staying on so she took the room and offered it to someone else without telling him. It's just a really unfortunate situation. He had an interview at another uni through clearing so fingers crossed.

    It's ironic because the only reason he can get legal aid is because he is unemployed. The education specialists seem to think he has a case so hmm. Thanks for the reply Kermit! I dont think they are expecting him to seek legal advice because of the way they fobbed him off in the letter. Just really angry about it now. :o
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    You sure they weren't just busy or off sick?

    Then surely an 'away' email would have popped back to him saying that 'I will be back in the office on...' or someone else would deal with the emails and messages? In the scenario that someone is sick, the entire admissions system shouldn't mess up in that way and candidates shouldn't have to suffer.

    Either way, when he complained about being ignored no one apoligised and no one tried to clear up the issue by telling him that the person was off sick. So no I don't think they were.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While it sounds like there are potentially some grounds for complaint, both you and he need to make sure you realise that it will take more than just meeting the entry requirements to get onto the course. ITT courses are hugely popular, and pretty much everyone applying will meet the minimum criteria, to get the place you've got to be the best out of the people applying.

    In the case of a teaching course, experience in one school is actually very limited experience to show that teaching is what you really want to do and you know what you are letting yourself in for. Yes, that may be the minimum requirement, but in reality you'd probably have to have an extremely strong application in other areas for that to be enough experience.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I think that's a very naive post, Mist. Employers and universities quite often try to hide behind 'oh, you're not good enough, sorry' with interviews, to hide a multitude of mistakes and prejudices. They have a duty to follow the correct procedure for ITT recruitment and if they do not do so then you have a very strong complaint.

    They do have a duty but that does not override the simple fact that there could be better people out there. You can't just throw a hissy fit because you are turned down. Well, you can I suppose, but there's no obligation on their part to accept a candidate.

    This (and forgive an assumption here) sounds like a middle-class male applying for a design teacher post. I'm not sure that he would rank highly on the list of potentially prejudiced people. But even leaving that aside (because I don't know either way.) I just don't see how an appeal against the process would result in anything of any benefit. He would not get himself a position through such an appeal. At best I could see he would get maybe another interview, and at that interview he would again be judged against the other many candidates, who likely have more experience and a better portfolio - his reasons for rejection.

    That the criteria said experience in 1 school is not important. That's the minimum entry requirements and the best candidates - those who have got past the interview - will have surpassed those requirements.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for the replies. I guess you can only take my word but the university treated him diabolically. Being repeatedly ignored and messing up his application at the administration stage to me, gives him grounds for complaint at the least.

    Good news I guess. The other university that he had an interview at yesterday through clearing accepted him today :) I know that he still wants to proceed with all the legal stuff.

    Mist I'm on good information that he is working class and from N Ireland :p

    As for the criteria- I understand what you mean about 'surpassing it' but I really do think that if that's the case then the original criteria is misleading and simple rewording would make it a lot more easier for future candidates. In this case I just think they were oversubscribed and were trying to wave him off. Anywho, thanks for the replies :)
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