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Gallup poll finds a literal zero tolerance for homosexuality among British Muslims

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

The worrying thing is this isn't one of your Channel 4 or daily mail 'lets ring 500 people in the poorest ethnic enclave in the North and see what happens'.

Large sample, zero positive response. Worrying.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends what questions were asked, as always, and how they were phrased.

    It's not really a surprise though, you'd get a similar response in any hotbed of retarded religious fundamentalism.

    Hell, my university's Christian Union have a policy of never allowing a woman to be their president, so it's not just Muslims who are backward.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have often found that the one thing that self proclaiming tolerant people cannot tolerate is intolerance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have often found that the one thing that self proclaiming tolerant people cannot tolerate is intolerance.

    Should all intolerance be tolerated?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Should all intolerance be tolerated?

    I do not consider myself capable of managing the emotions of others. I suspect that may well be the case for others even if they choose not to admit it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Intolerant actions should definitely not tolerated, and must be fought.

    And that is neither ironic nor a contradition.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not consider myself capable of managing the emotions of others. I suspect that may well be the case for others even if they choose not to admit it.

    Is that a yes? All intolerance should be tolerated?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not consider myself capable of managing the emotions of others. I suspect that may well be the case for others even if they choose not to admit it.

    Sounds like a yes to me.

    Intolerant thoughts can't be managed, you can't force someone to grow up and stop being a retarded bawbag, but intolerant actions can be managed.

    People who can't manage their emotions and set them aside when dealing with people should be punished.

    I class myself of tolerant of many things, but I'm not tolerant of stupidity or backward thinking. Such is life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is that a yes? All intolerance should be tolerated?

    I do not profess to answer for others but Kermit has more or less answered for me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not profess to answer for others but Kermit has more or less answered for me.

    So you're intolerant of intolerance?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you're intolerant of intolerance?

    I am intolerant of all manner of things in different ways at various times.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am intolerant of all manner of things in different ways at various times.

    So is it safe to say that you're a self-proclaimed tolerant type, but that you have been known to be intolerant of intolerance?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So is it safe to say that you're a self-proclaimed tolerant type, but that you have been known to be intolerant of intolerance?

    All things to all men !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NEWS TICKER: ++ Muslims don't like gays ++ Bear takes a shit in the woods ++ Pope is Catholic ++ Jacqui Smith is fat, thieving cunt ++

    How much money was wasted on this pointless research, exactly?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How much is religion and how much is cultural?

    Whilst I can't be arsed to look it up I suspect most British Muslims come from Pakistan/Bangladesh, whilst German Moslems will be mainly Turks and French from North Africa (and include many refugees who fled the extremist violence in Algeria). It could be as much about geographic culture as anything else...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought it might be worth posting this similar poll by the same organisation for comparison.
    20050524b_1.gif

    20050524b_2.gif
    How much is religion and how much is cultural?

    Whilst I can't be arsed to look it up I suspect most British Muslims come from Pakistan/Bangladesh, whilst German Moslems will be mainly Turks and French from North Africa (and include many refugees who fled the extremist violence in Algeria). It could be as much about geographic culture as anything else...
    I think it's impossible to seperate the two. Religion informs culture, and culture influences religion, and both inform values of right and wrong. But you can't get Islam off the hook here by claiming it's cultural, because the values prevelant in these cultures are largely based on Islam. But I would agree that it is about different interpretations of Islam taught in various areas of the world. Let's face it, like most religions, the followers rarely actually study it themselves in any great detail, or read the books, they just go along with what they are taught by the authority figures in their lives. So homosexuality is a sin, and drinking alcohol is a sin. Proper homophobia, with it's usual psychological causes (as opposed to just an interpretation of a text), will cause people to place a greater emphasis on the former. It's the same reason that some Christians go after homosexuality, but aren't picketing the local shellfish supplier. But the teachings themselves will get people to say that it's not morally acceptable. But when they answer that, you don't know whether they're saying, "well like drinking, God forbids it," or they're taking more of a "hang the gays" attitude.

    Homophobia is deeper than any religion, but social values are what causes people to care about other people doing it. There are plenty of people who have pretty homophobic attitudes and feelings, but in the UK, a lot will take the attitude that as long as it doesn't affect anyone else they can do what they want, because we have the social value that reflects this freedom of choice. I think we have the same inherant homophobia in the UK as Pakistan, we just don't have a system of values that encourages it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Depends what questions were asked, as always, and how they were phrased.

    It's not really a surprise though, you'd get a similar response in any hotbed of retarded religious fundamentalism.

    From memory, this was part of an international survey, and the UK was the only country to have a zero - so while there is still the issue of translation, it's harder to blame it on the questions
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let's face it, like most religions, the followers rarely actually study it themselves in any great detail, or read the books, they just go along with what they are taught by the authority figures in their lives.

    Yes indeed. It is almost like chinese whispers lasting centuries resulting in the original statements being completely transformed.

    In my experience you cannot beat going to the source and studying the laws and statutes first hand word by word if you really want to follow the instructions.

    To take just one example, it appears that pig eating christians saving their Bank of England notes in interest (usury) bearing bank accounts in order to pay their (longer than 6 year) mortgages for a house that they coveted because it was like that of their (corporation) work colleague whose wife they are banging (while denying the very fact) would not agree with my observation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flashman's Ghost View Post
    How much is religion and how much is cultural?

    Whilst I can't be arsed to look it up I suspect most British Muslims come from Pakistan/Bangladesh, whilst German Moslems will be mainly Turks and French from North Africa (and include many refugees who fled the extremist violence in Algeria). It could be as much about geographic culture as anything else...
    I think it's impossible to seperate the two. Religion informs culture, and culture influences religion, and both inform values of right and wrong. But you can't get Islam off the hook here by claiming it's cultural, because the values prevelant in these cultures are largely based on Islam. But I would agree that it is about different interpretations of Islam taught in various areas of the world. Let's face it, like most religions, the followers rarely actually study it themselves in any great detail, or read the books, they just go along with what they are taught by the authority figures in their lives. So homosexuality is a sin, and drinking alcohol is a sin. Proper homophobia, with it's usual psychological causes (as opposed to just an interpretation of a text), will cause people to place a greater emphasis on the former. It's the same reason that some Christians go after homosexuality, but aren't picketing the local shellfish supplier. But the teachings themselves will get people to say that it's not morally acceptable. But when they answer that, you don't know whether they're saying, "well like drinking, God forbids it," or they're taking more of a "hang the gays" attitude.

    Homophobia is deeper than any religion, but social values are what causes people to care about other people doing it. There are plenty of people who have pretty homophobic attitudes and feelings, but in the UK, a lot will take the attitude that as long as it doesn't affect anyone else they can do what they want, because we have the social value that reflects this freedom of choice. I think we have the same inherant homophobia in the UK as Pakistan, we just don't have a system of values that encourages it.

    Flashman's point is also about the areas of migration, and the legacies of culture that exist in those regions - I would also add a large dolop of socio-economic class to this, because the sending regions for Muslim minorities (for example: between British Muslims of Pakistani and Bangladeshi heritage and their generally more affluent Indian heritage counterparts - generalising wildly of course but this is the general statistical picture of south asian migration).
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