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Therapists still "treat" homosexuality

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
From the BBC

What do you think? It's an open secret that I spent many years in therapy, and I can see why the report concedes that many were acting with the "best of intentions". There have been times when I desperately wanted not to be gay any more, and was almost persuaded to visit a Christian counsellor instead of my NHS psychotherapist because my church thought that the NHS were trying to keep me gay...

I'm obviously incredibly glad I never did but at the time I slightly resented my psychotherapist because she seemed to act as though the conflict I felt about my sexuality was something that would just go away when I met more gay people. That ignorance just made me think that since she didn't understand how the conflict arose she would never be able to help me resolve it.

I can see how, when faced with a young person like me who is devasted by facing up to their sexuality, it would seem easier to help them "manage" their feelings. They may have been begged to do so, but it will always do more harm than good in the long run.

(In case it's not been clear, incidentally, I am much more at ease with my sexuality now, and do owe a lot of that to the mental health professionals I saw during my years of chronic depression.)

So there's my tuppence worth, what do you lot think?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a strange one.

    The worry is that therapists really don't know that much about the psychology or of anything about homosexuality. Obviously, it's not something that should be scientifically 'understood' but maybe therapists just aren't trained so much in dealing with it.

    Also, since so many people go through such a hard time in dealing with their sexuality, this may be part of the reason why therapists try to suppress or reduce these feelings in people. Like...when someone is depressed because of x, then the therapist will try and help get rid of or reduce the feelings and ideas that the person has about x. So, when dealing with sexuality they work with it in a similar manner.

    I'm probably wrong, but it's a guess.
    Still, it's not the right way of dealing with it and I think that it should be addressed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People are stupid, I don't see why still make a massive deal about sexuality because it really doesn't matter. But it doesn't go one week without hearing something about it really, it's Chris Moyles doing an effeminate accent or whatever. Why as a people are we so obsessed with who other people fancy?

    I also think from a clinical point of view there are probably shades of grey. What about someone who is suffering from an underlying MH issue and then becomes confused about their sexuality? Maybe the two are linked and the therapy may or may not help. I wouldn't like to comment too harshly as I am not a therapist and obviously am not as informed to how they do things.
    They point to work by Robert Spitzer, a psychiatrist who lobbied for the removal of homosexuality from APA's list of mental illnesses but went on to suggest in a controversial 2001 study that therapy could bring about change in sexual orientation.

    If there is therapy that has proven effectiveness in changing sexuality, and someone wants that, I think they should be free to do that. Something that disturbs me more inside is someone made the observation that peadophiles don't really have a choice either, and then suddenly my nice preset ideas about right and wrong went out the window. If we don't choose who we are attracted to, man, woman, child, animal or inanimate object but it is preset in our genes and socialisation, but some are more acceptable in society than other, maybe therapy is a good thing for those especially with more 'marginalised' tastes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    People are stupid, I don't see why still make a massive deal about sexuality because it really doesn't matter. But it doesn't go one week without hearing something about it really, it's Chris Moyles doing an effeminate accent or whatever. Why as a people are we so obsessed with who other people fancy?
    It matters because this is people's lives and mental wellbeing that someone is titting around with. For fuck's sake would you take that attitude if people were trying to "cure" racial diversity with skin bleaching?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I wouldn't like to comment too harshly as I am not a therapist and obviously am not as informed to how they do things.

    Good idea. Thus disregard the rest of your post.

    Therapy is not effective in changing sexuality; the 2001 study is "controversial" because it sucks. Studies are not objective, but if you can find a hundred that suggest one thing and one that suggests another, you start to get a clearer picture about which is correct. There is long, documented history of people being "treated" for homosexuality and ending up with miserable lives that are just as conflicted as before - because, as pretty much most people now concede, sexuality is not socialised but innate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Piccolo - I think you mistake my meaning. Why are people such as therapists and the media and everyone soo obsessed with who people fancy? Personally I see it as a personal thing. What is it about us that makes us want to pry our nose into other people's business? Would I take the attitude that we shouldn't make a huge fuss about race either? Yep. I'm not talking about being accepting of homophobia, but homosexuality. And sexuality in general. Why is it such a big fucking taboo in society? People are gay, straight, bisexual, whatever.
    Good idea. Thus disregard the rest of your post.

    But evidently everybody else in this thread is???
    Therapy is not effective in changing sexuality; the 2001 study is "controversial" because it sucks. Studies are not objective, but if you can find a hundred that suggest one thing and one that suggests another, you start to get a clearer picture about which is correct. There is long, documented history of people being "treated" for homosexuality and ending up with miserable lives that are just as conflicted as before - because, as pretty much most people now concede, sexuality is not socialised but innate.

    That's why I said IF there is proven therapy then people should be allowed to have that. I can imagine some would say they're gay and that's how god wants them or something stupid and denying their right to treatment. Hell, if someone whose straight wants to be gay they should be allowed to have this hypothetical therapy too (again, IF it works).

    I take it since you know for a fact that therapy doesn't work contrary to some claims by professionals and researchers that you are in fact not just an expert in that field but also the authoritative expert and therefore will defer to your judgement. It's great we have such a variety of experts on here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good idea. Thus disregard the rest of your post.

    Therapy is not effective in changing sexuality; the 2001 study is "controversial" because it sucks. Studies are not objective, but if you can find a hundred that suggest one thing and one that suggests another, you start to get a clearer picture about which is correct. There is long, documented history of people being "treated" for homosexuality and ending up with miserable lives that are just as conflicted as before - because, as pretty much most people now concede, sexuality is not socialised but innate.

    First link in google:

    http://www.plu.sg/main/facts_03.htm

    Very first paragraph.
    In popular parlance, the question is whether homosexuality is due to nature or nurture. Frustratingly to those who want a simple answer NOW, there is currently no definitive answer from scientific research, nor is there likely ever to be a simple answer.

    You should probably go tell these guys they've not had your enlightenment yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think people who still do this can call themselves therapists, or have the necessary skills or judgement to practice tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I don't think people who still do this can call themselves therapists, or have the necessary skills or judgement to practice tbh.

    Ok, someone walks into a therapists office and says he is confused and maybe upset about his sexuality. The therapist talks this through with him. The therapist may even go through some exercises to help calm him down etc. (I read an interesting diary of the treatment for someone who felt he had an inferior penis, obviously different altogether, but after the therapy he felt that penis size was not such a big problem - maybe the same would be true of sexuality i.e. coming to terms / acceptance or whatever).

    Media picks up on 'sexuality' and 'therapy' and puts it together in a way that leads people to the conclusion that therapists are trying to cure gayness in much the same way the nazis tried to treat it by eliminating it from the gene pool. I'm not saying the problem isn't there that society still perceives sexuality as a massive issue (which as I said in my first post, I really don't get - who gives a crap who someone else fancies) because obviously it does. But none of us work in the therapy profession and some may have limited exposure probably from the wrong end. So it's a bit like trial by media.

    If someone walks into a therapists office and asks for help, should the therapist says what they want help for is something they should just have to deal with? If I walk into my GP's office and say I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body I would expect my GP to take me seriously and help in one way or another. I don't know what people are expecting of them really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem is that many of those who do or would consider doing this are speaking of 'treatments' or even 'cures'- as if homosexuality was a condition or disease that needs to be corrected.

    I accept that there might be a very small number of cases in which a patient might be completely straight and due to various circumstances go into a phase in which they might question their sexuality, even though they have no genuine feelings for people of the same sex. Helping the patient understand themselves better would be the right action to take, and in such cases those patients might come to realise they are not gay after all.

    But when someone comes to to a therapist and states clearly they are having regular homosexual thoughts and desires and ask to be 'cured' of it, a therapist would be completely wrong to attempt to do so.

    What they should do is to get them to see there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and their own disgust towards the possiblity of being gay emanates from social prejudice and fear of what others might think, and work to build their self steem and confidence to face this.

    Only a person with ulterior motives (homophobe or religious fundamentalist) could possibly let a repressed homosexual think it is something to be ashamed of and which should indeed be got rid of. Such person is clearly not suitable to be a therapist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can we send some of these therapists away to be treated for their obvious stupidity?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    4 % is quite high, but not as bad as it could be, and a yes/no is hard to apply to the complex scenario that "change their sexuality" actually implies
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