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16 year old fired for Facebook post citing 'Boring Job'
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/7914415.stm
Oh this guy is going to pay...
Just out of interest if anyone on here has legal/CIPD Human Resources knowledge - is this even legal?
Oh this guy is going to pay...
Just out of interest if anyone on here has legal/CIPD Human Resources knowledge - is this even legal?
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We got a letter last week at work warning us not to mention or jobs or our coworkers on Facebook etc. Fair, it can be offensive and unfair to coworkers but we were being warned against giving people details of Tesco offers. Who does that?
I stack shelves. Do I really need to be warned about this??
At 16, do you really expect to be doing an intellectually stimulating job? Hell, I've got 3 A levels, a degree and speak three languages. Yet I still had to stack shelves and pull pints for many years for my holiday jobs.
From a legal perspective, the defence might justifiably argue that her actions have brought the firm into disrepute, which, though I'm no lawyer, surely counts as gross negligence and is therefore a sackable offence?
I work for a professional body in Central London, and I told my direct line manager just yesterday that I found a task boring - and thats it! We need to let off steam like that, its how we get through the day - my boredom did not stop me completing the task, did not affect morale, and to be honest only an idiot would disagree that envelope stuffing is boring.
Saying something is boring is not the same as poor performance, not working hard enough, or not performing. Something can be boring and neccessary and people can do the job well - applying some drastically Orwellian thought control to your employees is not going to change that...
But. As long as I'm Helpful and Friendly and provide immense customer service (the mystery shoppers love me) and do my job then who cares?
I can't tell from the story whether she actually named her company. If not, then this would seem like an overreaction.
No it just clearly says the following: Her mother, Janette, 41, said: "I think she's been treated totally unfairly. She didn't mention the company's name"
Yes, of course I did. And how. But what I did not do was publish my thoughts in what is effectively a public domain where anyone (including people from my company) could read it. Hell, EVERYONE moans about their jobs from time to time. What people don't do is publish these thoughts where anyone can read them because they have the common sense to know that bad-mouthing your employer in public isn't a great idea if they still want them to pay your wages.
Which is exactly what the kid in question should have done. If I find something about my work boring / pointless, then I go to the person who gave me that piece of work / my line manager and tell them so and treat the situation in an adult manner. I do not go behind their back and make a public statement of defamation which could bring the company into disrepute.
It's a wonder you can see us all from up there on your high horse... Seriously get over yourself. This is not thought control; this is a company doing what it is perfectly entitled to in order to maintain its reputation against public defamation.
No, nor can I. Though to be honest, she doesn't strike me as very bright so I wouldn't be surprised if she mentioned the company name in her job information further down the page.
Oops! I must have dozed off by then ....
The exaggerated nature of your language suggests either you aren't having a good day and/or are incapable of disagreeing amicably, so I'm excuse me for not responding further.
Again, get over yourself. I know that in Britain today (and I'm actually being serious here) there is a lot of intrusion into our private lives and your Orwellian comment is topical, it's not justified in this case. The company did not snoop on private conversations, tap her phone or use any other clandestine method; they merely read what she had written on a publicly-available medium, available to anyone with an internet connection.
I used the term as a comparative to identify a range of surveillance that is above and beyond the norm, that is all. I don't know if you happen to have read Jack Straw's piece in Guardian, but I wasn't suggesting police state Britain and I don't think it is reasonable to infer this.
I agree. And even if you have the right to post stuff about work and/or people it's really so much stuff some people write that you don't really need to know about. I guess I'll never understand why some people have to display everything about their life on facebook.
She'd have been better to keep her mouth shut if I'm being frank. The same thing would have happened if she'd been publicly declaring how boring she thought her job was in the office.
People are under the misguided impression that they can write whatever they want on the internet without suffering any conscequences. I get it all the time at the schools I work in with people sending threatening/abusive/sexually explicit messages to one another thinking that because it's written down on a Bebo page it's somehow acceptable.
If you want to write whatever you want then you remain anonymous.
As I say, everyone at my work things their job is boring, everyone complains about it. But I'm nice, and a very good worker so that's all that matters.
Lol you just reminded me of 4chan.
Anyway, I think it's fairly clearcut: she should be more sensible when posting stuff on the internet as it is in public, however in this case her boss is in the wrong because she has a right to a life outside work. Still was probably not the most intelligent thing to say, but there we are.
It depends what the comment said though, if it just said as her status "Person is bored of work" then I would agree it seems the manager is looking for an excuse to sack her. Managers can and do (and I'm studying management
Quoted for truth.
There was this guy Taylor who came up with a theory of scientific management. Basically, employees are shit and will never work as hard as they can, because there's nothing in it for them, it just increases manager's expectations. So he proposed the concept of giving workers targets, and increased remunaration. Managers saw this, all nodded their heads in agreement, started watching their workers more and giving them more shit - but stopped short of the increased remunaration.
Of course, that was quite a while ago, but it's another good example of what Marx talks about about when those in power really have the power to screw others over with little accountability.
I'm pretty sure that holding a gun and saying your job is boring are two different things.
But people will get kicked out of school for even muttering the word in some places.
But it's not comparable to her saying such things in the office at all - it wasn't at work, and it wasn't on a work-related website. Her ex-boss has also been quoted as saying that the same outcome would have happened had she written it on the noticeboard at work.
She said it in her own time, somewhere completely unrelated to work. The nearest comparison would be for her to have said it in the pub with a group of friends - and could you realistically expect any boss to get away with terminating someones employment based on them saying to their friends, outside of work, that their job has been boring recently?
word. what, so you have to like your job, as an actual requirement???? fucking hell. this is actual thought police! where the hell does freedom of speech come into this????
It is not thought police. It's not Big Brother, The Benefactor or Mustapha Mond. Not by a long shot. She published this information in the public domain. The fact that it was published outside of work hours is neither here nor there. She took a risk with publishing this information as it was available to anyone with an internet connection. THEY WERE NOT INVADING HER PRIVACY AS SHE CHOSE TO DECLARE THIS INFORMATION PUBLICLY.
This can be deemed 'bringing the company into disrepute' which is grounds for dismissal on the grounds of gross misconduct. This article sums it up nicely: http://www.out-law.com/page-7840, especially this bit:
There have been preceding cases which have gone either way:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2005/jan/12/books.newmedia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/01/virgin-atlantic-facebook
Whilst it's impossible from these two cases to assess whether there's a hard and fast rule, insulting the people who pay your wages, be it the company or the the customers of the company, is a very stupid idea if you choose to publish those opinions in the public domain. Complain to your mates, your family (we ALL do that) but don't declare it in public unless you want to provoke a reaction. She's just a silly little girl.
We don't know the circumstances of what led him to read the comments. For all we know she added him as a friend.
We don't even know exactly what her comments were.
If she'd said the same thing during a work night out, or at work, or on a lunch break or to her boss anywhere out of work she'd have got the sack.
Whatever the circumstances are, she wrote something in the PUBLIC arena about her work. If she'd wanted them to remain private then she should have not written them, or set her profile to private.
I dunno, I've made several remarks in the past to people directly above(and under) me that aspects of the work were boring and tedious - literally, to their faces. Nobody has ever batted an eyelid, apart from one. He employed someone else to do the boring aspects of the work...
Aspects of life are boring and tedious. Everyone has a right to say as such - it doesn't mean you don't want the job, or that you'll not give it your all. Packing chickens - could that be anything other than tedious and boring? Directory enquiries - could that be anything other than tedious and boring? Frankly, a large number of jobs exist that are either tedious and boring, or aspects of the work are tedious and boring. What's wrong with stating the truth?
As for bringing the company into disrepute - how? Did she alledge that the company was drug smuggling? Pimping out refugees? Dodging their taxes?
I've sat for hours stuck in traffic for work. I'd struggle to argue it was anything other than boring at that point. Should I lose my job for such comments?
Either way, it is a good lesson in being careful about what you write.