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Is capitalism working?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Great Depression was not accidental, it was a carefully contrived occurrence. The international Bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as rulers of us all.” - Louis McFadden
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    I wish I fully understood it all but I don't. I've seen so many "credit crunch for dummies" guides and while I do get the general jist of it, I still haven't got a clue what half of this shit means. :(:lol: :eek:

    “The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it.” - John Kenneth Galbraith, in his book “Money: Whence It Came, Where It Went”, 1975
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    I wish I fully understood it all but I don't. I've seen so many "credit crunch for dummies" guides and while I do get the general jist of it, I still haven't got a clue what half of this shit means. :(:lol: :eek:

    Companies are financed through equity and loans - equity coming from shareholders / owners and loans coming from the banks. What happened, was the banks had lent out all their available cash, but still had loans due back to them. They had the assets but not the liquidity.

    Then when a business tries to buy something to sell on (with credit), the bank says no. When someone tries to get a credit card to buy something from the business, the bank says no. Because the banks basically ran out of cash, it dried it up everywhere else. Nothing truly catastrophic happened, it was a case of runaway borrowing where people would get more and more credit until the banks had no more to give, and all of a sudden the businesses that were operating solely on credit gave in, the people who had everything on credit become bankrupt, etc. etc.

    In a way it's like building a bigger and bigger eck of cards. It's going to fall down one day. The good news is it's not the end of the world as some would have you think, and it's not a conspiracy as others would have you think. We will emerge better off than we were before, it's just a typical business cycle of free market economies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In a way it's like building a bigger and bigger eck of cards. It's going to fall down one day. The good news is it's not the end of the world as some would have you think, and it's not a conspiracy as others would have you think. We will emerge better off than we were before, it's just a typical business cycle of free market economies.


    You mean until it happens again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    You mean until it happens again.

    Well yes, but it will continue to happen because it's a free market. Don't pretend it's someone else doing this, it was our over reliance on credit to get by.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know it's 'our' own fault, but it's also our fault for not wanting it to change. I've spoken to people before who believe that it's too late somehow, and it's "just the way it is" forever. Asif we have ZERO say in things. Which does seem that way but one day.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    morrocan roll wrote: »
    Clandestine ...remember him ...he was spot on about what was happening.
    Remember the guy who's name i can't remember ...bored us all fucking mindless with the there are no countries stuff?
    Turns out he was right too ...with the fiat currency and the debt.
    Remember me last year saying a loaf of bread this year ...would cost around fifty quid ...even thats not looking so crazy now ...is it?
    Funny Jomery hasn't been back to defend investment bankers again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm looking forward to Thunderstruck's rant.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Companies are financed through equity and loans - equity coming from shareholders / owners and loans coming from the banks. What happened, was the banks had lent out all their available cash, but still had loans due back to them. They had the assets but not the liquidity.

    Then when a business tries to buy something to sell on (with credit), the bank says no. When someone tries to get a credit card to buy something from the business, the bank says no. Because the banks basically ran out of cash, it dried it up everywhere else. Nothing truly catastrophic happened, it was a case of runaway borrowing where people would get more and more credit until the banks had no more to give, and all of a sudden the businesses that were operating solely on credit gave in, the people who had everything on credit become bankrupt, etc. etc.

    In a way it's like building a bigger and bigger eck of cards. It's going to fall down one day. The good news is it's not the end of the world as some would have you think, and it's not a conspiracy as others would have you think. We will emerge better off than we were before, it's just a typical business cycle of FREE MARKET economies.

    I do not consider any of the western economies to be free market. I suppose it depends on your definition.

    There is an insider who appears to agree with me with his latest writings. You may not be familiar with him but he was the US Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the 80s.

    A somewhat lengthy essay but I found it worth the read.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02242009.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I know it's 'our' own fault, but it's also our fault for not wanting it to change. I've spoken to people before who believe that it's too late somehow, and it's "just the way it is" forever. Asif we have ZERO say in things. Which does seem that way but one day.

    But it's not our own fault ...thats the official line your supposed to follow.
    David Rockerfeller called in Fifteen billion dollars in loans from Leham brothers ...to be paid withing seven days.
    He has said that yes he knew this was impossible and yes he knew it would have a domino effect.
    It has been done exactly the same way as in the great depression.
    Flood the market with credit ...withdraw the credit without notice.
    Some of you seem to believe there have been free markets operating?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Obama is brilliant.
    A breath of fresh air.
    Inspirational.
    Believable.
    Powerful.
    But ...don't be fooled.
    American hollywood style democracy always plays the same scenes of good cop bad cop.
    We're back with good cop again.
    It's all bollox of course.
    Your meant to believe this is left wing America but it isn't.
    It's what has to be done ...the changes that have to be made.
    The adjustments to the tiller ...all done in a manner that convinces the people they have choice ...they don't.
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