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What makes you think it was Hamas, or that Hamas can control the actions of every single person who lives in Gaza?
What makes you think it isn't Hamas? The group that held Alan Johnston quickly gave him up when Hamas flexed its muscles. I don't believe any other group in Gaza would attempt to operate outside of Hamas' approval.
And Hamas, if it wanted to, would stop them.
Not saying that is what happened, since we do not know, but if an individual or recently formed group decided to plant a bomb, I doubt Hamas would have even been aware of it until after the act, let alone being able to stop it. Since we don't know either away it is wrong and premature to state Hamas is to blame for the bombing or could have prevented it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/30/hamas-reprisal-attacks
There was no ceasefire, Hamas ceased hostilities for nearly 6 months and Israel continued it's operations, and planning for the most recent attack on Palestine went underway at least 6 months prior to it's execution (hence: Israel had no intention of honouring the cease fire).
Although the Israeli elections are getting closer, so I expect that Israel will send lots of bombs over soon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7869704.stm
Which emphasises my argument that Hamas do not have their citizens interests at heart and the whole 'rocket' issue was to draw Israel's fire for their own political reasons.
Though Teagan do you really think they wanted to draw Israel's fire for political reasons? Bear in mind, the recent rocket attacks where Israel blamed Hamas and promised a disproportionate retaliation, a Fatah breakaway group had admitted responsibility.
Both sides are playing the political game, but I would argue that based on the weeks and months building up to the initial conflict it was Israel's actions that acted as a catalyst and a spark, not Hamas'. (Remember again that they broke the cease fire first, and that they did not adhere to the peace treaty terms in opening up the borders of Gaza...)
Because Hamas do this wrong we can't just start drawing conclusions that obviously therefore the whole thing is their fault. That's just ridiculous.
Surely the catalyst would be the continual breaches of the ceasefire by rocket and mortar attacks on Israel and the spark was building a tunnel to try and abduct Israeli soldiers?
Hamas aren't some reactive grouping, now and then rushing to save the Palestinian people on their white chargers. They have aims and objectives, which aren't soley reactive to Israel actions.
Though it's widely reported that hamas had stopped the vast majority of rocket attacks during the cease fire period, and there was only an escalation after the November 4th actions of Israel.
I know they have their own political aims but the general consensus of what people are expected to believe is that they're terrorists, and Israel are dealing with an internal matter in the way that suits them. Hamas was initially supported by Israel remember, in order to destabilise Fatah. Manufactured then the realities distorted by propaganda in order to give the Israeli government something it can tag as an absolute enemy, so it can continue it's unlawful occupation.
What is actually happening is so distorted by the media that it becomes impossible to make a fair judgement one way or the other.
That comment doesn't seem to gel with your other comments on this subject where you seem willing to make judgements on what's going on...
I still stand by my position that Israel is waging a massive media / propaganda campaign on the whole thing at home and abroad with masses of lobbyists etc. Hamas may well be doing that as well... just not so effectively that other governments will recognise it as anything other than a terrorist organisation.
Someone else in the thread said 'they're both as bad as each other'. If that is the case, why is it Hamas that's recognised as a terrorist group and Israel as this nation under siege? I think more than anything the anguish felt by palestinian sympathisers such as myself (hopefully in some way all of us really) comes down to the double standards. Israel receives £3bn a year in military aid. Hamas receives heavy sanctions in the form of having it's borders closed off. The status quo as it is isn't balanced or fair, and thats why I place the onus on Israel because they are the side with the power / resources atm.
Because Hamas won't renounce violence, calls for the destruction of Israel, denies the Holocaust, uses civilians to hide its military action, Hamas's own Al Feteh website encourages their children to 'martyrdom' for the struggle, they forcibly quash dissent with beatings/shootings and murder etc.
There is NO doubt in my mind that Israel's actions in Gaza were awful ... but perhaps Gazeans will be more encouraged to vote Fatah back into power in their next elections (if Hamas will allow it) since Hamas has led them to nothing but death and destruction.
Hamas gives Israel the excuse it needs to justify their action. If Hamas were to have a true ceasefire and work with Israel for a peaceful solution, all the eyes of the world would be on Israel to deliver because Israel would have nothing to hide behind. Simple.
Af the end of the Teegan, you are not considering what is by far the most imporant fact of them all: that this is not an equal fight between equal parties, but one party illegally occupying the other people's land and subjecting them to decades of unspeakable abuses, terrorising and killings.
I'd rather judge people by their actions than by their words. Committing war crimes, breaking international law, stealing and occupying other people's and, subjecting said people to near-starvation conditions and causing thousands upon thousands of deaths has to be far, far worse in anyone's book than denying the Holocaust and calling for other people's destruction.
And yet, the far bigger terrorists and murderers are called the victims by some. Fucking unbelievable.
But as it stands, it was hamas as far as I'm aware who came in and provided the services that the people of gaza needed, and that's why people liked them. Not so much now as is evident in the news.
As of today: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/02/20092592757311355.html
Israel has seized an aid ship destined for Palestine. Who will provide for the gazans...?
For what it's worth Hamas did agree to a longer lasting peace deal during the cease fire period but it was rejected by Israel (it required a withdrawl from the occupied territories, but allowed Israel to remain in the 1967 borders - hamas supporting a two state solution).
How about this for starters? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/30/hamas-reprisal-attacks
Aladddin, I am not saying Israel are the victims. I am saying, however, that Hamas could avoid all of this if it chose to follow a peaceful route to a solution - but it chooses not to.
Hamas KNOWS it cannot win militarily and Hamas KNOWS that it governs the most populated area in the world, but yet launches attacks from Gaza whereby any retailation WILL kill innocent civilians. Surely that is an unforgiveable crime in itself?
If Hamas did go down a peaceful route, Israel will in time HAVE to bow to international pressure because they would be no excuse left for them to hide behind and be forced to resolve the issue. While Israel has even the slightest inkling of sympathy from the outside world, they won't feel obliged to negotiate with the enemy.
I see what you're saying, and I've said a few posts back Hamas' actions are despicable. But it is true nonetheless that the only reason they exist, the only reason they were ever popular, is because of Israel's stranglehold on Gaza.
Looking forwards, you say that if Hamas conduct themselves peacefully then peace will come...? But isn't that what they were doing for the 6 months whilst Israel ignored the conditions set out in the cease fire? It's true that it's a game of tit-for-tat and that both want to get the last word in to say that they were the dominant ones.
But it's not true to say that they are as bad as each other, because as Aladdin says clearly one has the other by the throat. I wouldn't be so sure Israel would bow to political pressure either. The scale and depth of Israeli lobbyist support around the world is quite worrying, with many who STILL believe that the majority of the middle east belongs to Israel by right. If these people are holding power over those who organise these campaigns, when will the end come? Bear in mind Israel has pretty much expanded in every single direction from it's inception and has not 'bowed to international pressure' to return to its own borders in 40 years.
Well, that's not true. Rockets were still occasionally fired into Israel and arms were still being smuggled into Gaza.
Rockets Mortars
Jan 136 241
Feb 228 257
Mar 103 196
Apr 373 145
May 206 149
Jun 158 87
Jul 4 8
Aug 8 3
Sep 1 3
Oct 1 1
Nov 125 68
Dec 361 241
In November, the IDF had to go into Gaza to destroy a 250-metre tunnel that was being dug towards the Israeli border, which was the method used by Hamas to kidnap Gilad Shalit in 2007.
Hamas were hardly sitting on their hands during the ceasefire.
(*Please excuse table formatting. I couldn't get it neater.
Time after time Israel has rejected this, with its very successful and mighty PR machine convincing the world they are the ones interested in peace and Hamas isn't.
until the ceasefire was broken by israel, the VERY few rockets that come from gaza weren't from hamas but from individuals who opposed the ceasefire and pro-fatah factions....
You know that's not true. Noone goes against Hamas' will in Gaza without retribution.