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Our economic policies are crap, say the Germans

It seems that the only people who believe that our economic policies are the right ones are Ed Bollocks and Macavity. (or Superman, as Harriet Harman called him in the Commons today) This week, the Germans have decided to come out and tell us that our attitude to getting out of the recession is wrong. Angela Merkel ridiculed Führer Brown and the Treasury earlier this week, now the German finance minister Peer Steinbrück has thrown his hat into the ring. According to an interview he's given to Newsweek;

"The speed at which proposals are put together under pressure... is breathtaking and depressing. Our British friends are now cutting their value-added tax. We have no idea how much of that stores will pass on to customers. Are you really going to buy a DVD player because it now costs £39.10 instead of £39.90? All this will do is raise Britain's debt to a level that will take a whole generation to work off."

A devastating criticism - why are the Tories not making it? He continues...
"The same people who would never touch deficit spending are now tossing around billions. The switch from decades of supply-side politics all the way to a crass Keynesianism is breathtaking. When I ask about the origins of the crisis, economists I respect tell me it is the credit-financed growth of recent years and decades. Isn't this the same mistake everyone is suddenly making again, under all the public pressure?"

So how does the Government react to this fierce criticism? Perhaps a staunch defence of its policies? Not bloody likely - no, Macavity just sends Ed Balls, his prized rat, over to Sky News to lie shamelessly about how the Germans don't actually mean what they're saying. Even Nick Robinson, probably the most sycophantic journalist at the BBC thinks this is complete shit.

So we have a government which ignores anyone who says what it's doing is wrong, and an opposition which lets them get away with it. What did we do to deserve this?

Over to you...
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Comments

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well german debt is now considered less risky than the US if you look at CDS spreads, of course these bailouts aren't very smart but it's not like every other country isn't doing it - china, japan, russia everywhere you look.....i think germany just announced a big fiscal stimulus, the problem comes when they have to tap the capital markets to raise debt. for the US that happens in april.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How about the Germans mind their own fucking business :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    How about the Germans mind their own fucking business :thumb:
    We could do well to listen to advice from Germany on this issue. They've had their fair share of economic difficulties in the last few years, bear that in mind. In the 1990s, when Soviet Russia broke up, Germany became one country once more. The West was affluent, the East was much more deprived. I simplify a bit here, but that's the gist of it. They invested heavily (and borrowed heavily, I also add) in East Germany to bring it up to scratch. It soon became one of the most profitable countries on the planet.

    If you go back further, history gives you another example. Take the end of World War 1. Basically, Germany was blamed for starting the entire war. Again, I simplify as it would take several hours to type out the full story. But Germany was put into a position of having a horrendously unsustainable debt because of this. The resentment from this decision partly led to the Nazis winning power, and ultimately led to World War 2. Far from decrying the Germans, (as the English are usually more than happy to do) they need to be listened to for once.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well german debt is now considered less risky than the US if you look at CDS spreads, of course these bailouts aren't very smart but it's not like every other country isn't doing it - china, japan, russia everywhere you look.....i think germany just announced a big fiscal stimulus, the problem comes when they have to tap the capital markets to raise debt. for the US that happens in april.

    Sterling has been spanked again by the euro today but, as you say, they are all at it. It is merely relative.

    I think a better measure would be with hard money. The gold pm price fix this afternoon set a new record for sterling.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Even Nick Robinson, probably the most sycophantic journalist at the BBC thinks this is complete shit.

    Why do you say he is 'sycophantic'?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Why do you say he is 'sycophantic'?
    I'm referring to the relationship between politicians and journalists, ultimately. Like several mass media journalists, I think he doesn't ask the questions that need to be asked to politicians. Some of the entries in his blog read too much like government press releases for my own liking.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I love it how when much of the Western world copied Britain's actions a few weeks ago when trying to fight the economic crisis (which is a de facto vindication of Brown's measures and a massive thumbs up from all those nations), SG ignored it or dismissed it as blind panic. But when one of those nations decides to criticise the government's policy, SC suddenly sees thieir opinion as highly important and relevant.

    Oh well, if you think the Germans are so good at managing the economy, I trust you won't have any objections to Britain joining the euro to fully benefit from their wisdom and stewardship.

    Your hatred of the government sometimes gets the better of you, you know...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I love it how when much of the Western world copied Britain's actions a few weeks ago when trying to fight the economic crisis (which is a de facto vindication of Brown's measures and a massive thumbs up from all those nations), SG ignored it or dismissed it as blind panic. But when one of those nations decides to criticise the government's policy, SC...
    SC? I wonder what this C stands for, Aladdin. :p
    ...suddenly sees thieir opinion as highly important and relevant. Oh well, if you think the Germans are so good at managing the economy, I trust you won't have any objections to Britain joining the euro to fully benefit from their wisdom and stewardship.
    Not a bloody chance. Britain must NEVER join the euro. We all know it's a political project designed to bring about a United States of Europe, not a financial project.

    If Britain's actions have been given the thumbs up by most of the world - and that's a big if - how come Britain is seen as more likely to default on its loans than McDonalds?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I'm referring to the relationship between politicians and journalists, ultimately. Like several mass media journalists, I think he doesn't ask the questions that need to be asked to politicians. Some of the entries in his blog read too much like government press releases for my own liking.

    Ohhh, ok. I always quite liked him myself, but I haven't read that many of his blogs as you have.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not a bloody chance. Britain must NEVER join the euro.

    You sound like your chum Gordon Brown. Brown's "Five Tests" were always a load of bollocks... Brown didn't want the Euro - and still doesn't, because he's power hungry and couldn't bear to lose influence to Europe.

    The fact is Britain could have joined the Euro on very good terms - and if we had, we'd be in a much better position now. The reality now is - at some point we'll probably end up joining from a much weaker position. The Daily Mail, the Tories and Stargalaxy can huff and puff... but joining the Euro is an inevitability.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Angela Merkel ridiculed Führer Brown

    Brown might be a disastrous PM but do you realise how ridiculous such statements make you look? If you had any respect for the suffering of millions you wouldn't use such a significant period in history to take a cheap swipe at Gordon Brown. It's trivialising, offensive and just plain stupid...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Looks like another German govt official has made a comment.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7778828.stm



    As I have said before, and just been backed up by someone else, letting your own personal hatred of the Govt get in the way, and not saying things until something comes along complaining about them, really shows a good level of interest in a story.

    As for the cheap swipe, I have mentioned before, walking version of the daily mail.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The fact is Britain could have joined the Euro on very good terms - and if we had, we'd be in a much better position now. The reality now is - at some point we'll probably end up joining from a much weaker position. The Daily Mail, the Tories and Stargalaxy can huff and puff... but joining the Euro is an inevitability.

    I think you could be right in that inevitability claim (political subjugation being the name of the game), but the fact you claim in your first sentence is wrong. I do not know who the "we" you refer to is but everyone as an individual has the opportunity to be better off using pounds sterling as a medium of exchange, and to a lesser extent a store of value.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The fact is Britain could have joined the Euro on very good terms - and if we had, we'd be in a much better position now. The reality now is - at some point we'll probably end up joining from a much weaker position.
    And how exactly would Britain's economy be stronger in the Euro? We'd lose the ability to control our own interest rates, for a start. We'd be tied to one interest rate across the entire Eurozone. Britain's economy is very different to many other European ones - Germany itself, for example. We're a house-buying economy, in Germany renting is the big thing. We haven't got a debt of 104% GDP like Italy, our economic situations are all completely different. One size fits all doesn't work.

    And why won't those who support the Euro state their case honestly? They know just as well as the rest of us that the Euro is just as much a political project as a financial one. Why don't they have the courage to say so?

    One other question, on a side subject. If the EU respects the democratic process as they claim to, why are they attempting to make Ireland vote again on the EU treaty?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fuss about nothing. As it happens I think the Germans are right, but let's not pretend they're disinterested spectators.

    Other countries are following the UK, including Euro members. If the Euro countries borrow more that's going to have an impact on all members, weakening the Euro and meaning more taxation for less services in a few years time. It won't hit them all equally of course but disproportionately on the wealthiest, ie Germany, who have to put more money in to pay for others largesse
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is interesting about this is the breach of protocol. No war is going to break out of this, but still, it seems like a massive departure from norm.

    Quite whAT promted the Germans to come out with this remains to be seen. In any case it seems a tad out unjustified and uncalled for. Are there any scores trying to be settled here?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I always remember germany having a good strong deuthmark before the euro but then so did we hehehe...most of the european countries are suffering. Germany is defo one of them...and I am not in favour of any of their comments whether it be good or bad or indifferent to be honest.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the weimar republic is still fresh enough in the minds of germans so they know you can't keep borrowing without consequences. unfortunately for them they loaned billions to ireland and other weak euro countries that can't pay them back now, so they're along for the ride whether they like it or not.
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