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Is it right for a woman to demand a Caesarean?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away I agree that you can place too much faith in vaginal birth but as it stands I think there is too much fear of it in general. I think unfortunately some mothers aren't being given all the information in an easy to digest and unbiased way, so might opt in to more risky procedures that they don't really need or even would want if they were looking at it in a neutral way. The ones who would still want a c section because of a significant reason would still have one and the ones who want a completely natural / with no drugs birth would still have one, but it's those mothers around the margins where I think they are being silently encouraged by TV shows, the news, books, whatever to have a c section because it's less stress than a vaginal birth.

    I'm a strong advocate of the epidural as a pain contorl method myself since there are limited side effects and it can pretty much numb most / all of the pain. Like you said earlier about going to the dentist without using pain medication (which I have done lol, I thought it would be over quicker...) theres no reason if we have it not to use it. But it's up the mother of course. But you go to the dentist and have the work done on your teeth even if it's not your favourite thing to do, people aren't swayed to just have the teeth removed because having work done is unpleasant. Not the same with pregnancy...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    I don't understand the reasoning behind unassisted birth came about. I don't think there has ever been a time in history where women were deliberately unattended? Being at home with a midwife or 3 I get, but to go it totally alone - for what benefit if any?



    I think it depends on the kind of doctor/midwife you trust. I wouldn't be so happy going to a Harley St doc telling me my baby is too big and that we should schedule the big day (ideally on a Thursday) :chin: But in one of the hospitals I did my OB/GYN-diabetes thing, I would happily put my self (and bubba) in their care. What pisses me off about the NHS is the lack of continuity of care and would rather get to know my team than seeing a different person at each appointment.

    Its a primal instinct. I remember very clearly when i was coming up to full term with Félix and just wanting everyone to go away. I was getting very stressed about everything, i didnt want anyone phoning me, didnt want any visitors and didnt want any bloody midwives coming and poking their nose in. I felt like locking myself in a cupboard, just me and my partner and giving birth alone (sort of)

    Luckily Im not so much of a slave to my primal instincts that it would actually outweigh rationality at such a vulnerable time and I did actually call the midwife out in the end.


    Having a big baby btw, is no reason at all to schedule a Csection in a normally proportioned woman. Growth scans are notoriously unreliable and so is FH measuring. I dont know why hospitals get so funny about big babies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »

    I'm a strong advocate of the epidural as a pain contorl method myself since there are limited side effects and it can pretty much numb most / all of the pain. Like you said earlier about going to the dentist without using pain medication (which I have done lol, I thought it would be over quicker...) theres no reason if we have it not to use it. But it's up the mother of course. But you go to the dentist and have the work done on your teeth even if it's not your favourite thing to do, people aren't swayed to just have the teeth removed because having work done is unpleasant. Not the same with pregnancy...

    NO pain relief is without risks. An epidural hugely increases the risk of needing ventouse or a forceps delivery which would require an episiotomy :nervous:
    I had an epidural with my first baby but i didnt want one any of the other times. Way to feel like a passive object while they remove a baby out of you by any means necessary
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure. It's not like shoulder dystocia can't be managed, but I don't know enough about it to comment. The last hospital I was at were trying to cut down on c-sections in women with gestational diabetes, but it seemed to be more about economics in reducing the number of surgeries they did than not wanting to label someone. I don't do OB/GYN proper until the new year.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    exactly. Shoulder dystocia can be well managed with good midwifery. Problem is they cut back on midwives and midwife training.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was speaking to an anaesthetist about a year ago, and he told me about some research that had just been published. Now it either said epidurals don't increase the rate of an assisted delivery but they do of a section - or that they don't increase the risk of a section, but increase the risk of forceps/ventouse. I don't know which way round it was, or the name of the paper :grump: but it's suggesting it's one or the other, and not both.

    I've heard great stuff about remifentanil, it's a very short acting opiod, works as patient controlled anaesthesia so the woman presses a button as and when, and she can remain mobile, and it wears off at the end of each contraction. I don't know if they offer it in the UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    most areas only offer pethidine for opiates and opiates DO cross the placenta
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But enough to be significant? Surely if respiratory depression in the neonate happens, it can be managed with naloxone? The stuff I've read on femy suggests that there is no difference in Apgar scores in those who did and didn't have it. By the sounds of it, it seems to actually do something for the pain than make someone so out of it that they don't care about it, as is the case with peth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its hard to say because with a newborn, you cant compare its breathing before and after.
    Its not just breathing though, I know pethidine can cause feeding difficulties in the fist few days, not to mention the fact that (as you say) for me and for most people ive asked who tried it, it just made them feel out of it, but still in pain, just less in control.

    Any advancement on adequate safe pain relief is a good thing IMO. Its interesting to hear about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Going back slightly to the big babies thing. I'm one of 3 children and was an emergency caesarean because I've got a damn big head and natural birth wasn't working.

    As a result of that my brothers were both born in elective caesareans to avoid ending up as emergencies. So there can be good grounds.

    I have never had children, but I've had surgery and I think it's really important to be sure the mother understands what it's like to get over surgery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    Well, do away with all free contraception then, because there isn't really a medical need to be on it, unlike someone with angina would need GTN. There isn't really a 'medical need' for pain relief during simple things like dentistry either, just suck it up and get on with it. ECT is really pushing it on the NHS budget when they put people under general anaesthetic too, people seemed to manage back in the 1940s without it.

    Stop being intellectually dishonest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    wtf, how is she being intellectually dishonest
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stop being intellectually dishonest.

    You might want to explain what you mean, what you've posted doesn't seem to make any sense?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure she knows free contraception is a social program and not based on any medical need. Performing unescessary surgical operations (c-section) is just comparing apples to oranges, there's no wider social benefit there.

    She's being intellectually dishonest because he's pretending to not know the difference when I'm pretty sure she does.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    'She's'? Whose that, the cat's mother?

    Anyway - best thing is to take the time to try and explain your objection to what someone has posted - that way real debate can take place. Using a term that only means something to you and no one else doesn't help.


    So, rule of thumb, always worth spending that extra few minutes to express yourself in a way that everyone can understand, or at least try to. Good debate is about including all, not excluding others with dull terminology. I'm sure there are plenty of other places that would welcome that though, just not here.

    If a point is worth making, its worth making so that all can understand it.
    :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PMSL :D
    She's being intellectually dishonest because he's pretending to not know the difference when I'm pretty sure she does.

    She is just one gender, plzkthnx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    So, rule of thumb, always worth spending that extra few minutes to express yourself in a way that everyone can understand, or at least try to. Good debate is about including all, not excluding others with dull terminology. I'm sure there are plenty of other places that would welcome that though, just not here.

    May have to abandon budda for a POTW there :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I had an emergency section with James under general and it was very scary and there was already medical reasons why i might have needed one anyway but not enough so i had to try normally. It didnt work and i had to have a section under general, it was one of the most scary times of my life. Both myself and James were in a bad way on the way to theatre.

    I am now pregnant with our second child and for several reasons i am more than likely opting for a elective section this time.
    I cannot risk going through what we all went through last time. Mentally more than anything. It made a big impact on me and OH for quite some time after the birth. I have spoken to my consultant who has said in my circumstances after sitting and listening to the background properly and how we feel he said that he would suggest another section too.

    Should i have been given the option for one the first time round? If my history was clear then i dont think i should have.
    Recovering from a section is hell and beleive me i would have much rather done the pushing bit (did the rest) than go through the section.

    Do i have the right to request one this time, i think so as the reasons are much greater than just not wanting to go through the pain. Which beleive me is much worse after a section. I have never known pain like it!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for sharing your experience Tweety :) it puts things in more perspective especially for those of us like me who haven't gone through childbirth ourselves. I still think ultimately a woman should be entitled to choose to have one but I think ultimately a healthy woman would normally choose not to because of the reasons you said - so we should present the realities to women in a fair and unbiased way so they are informed and can make the best decision for themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uh yeah.
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