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Work for benefits?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Flashman's Ghost wrote: »
    Most of it isn't though (and the majority is improving - eg decent homes funding). And yes if someone can't be arsed to work they should get the bare minimum. I'm happy to pay for people who can't work because they're ill or disabled or can't get a job. I'm not happy to pay for people who can't be bothered.

    And niether am I, where we differ is how we actually go about dealing those people who dont want to work. First of all we have to find out how many there really are, then we can look at what to do about them.

    Just making their life harder isnt going to change things, they have been playing the system for a while so know how to deal with it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm With Stupid wrote: »
    Isn't it? We have much lower unemployment than the European average, and roughly the same as America (which btw counts 1 hour of paid employment per week as an "employed" person, so their actual rate is much higher than the European equivalent statistics). Ours is 5.1%, so we should be looking at countries like Denmark (3.1%), Holland (2.6%), and Austria (4.1%) to see how they achieve it. But tbh, we're not that bad.

    Incidentally, I think that this offers a picture of the sort of thing you might expect from a more harsh welfare system.

    Tbh, I reckon that employment levels have very little to do with welfare tbh. I just don't believe that welfare is an incentive for anyone to not work.

    Unemployment is only one part of worklessness (as it is most countries), there are plenty of people not working, but who aren't claiming JSA. Unemployment figures under-report the problems.

    I also suspect we won't see people starving to death - the political ramifications would be too great for any Government, so there will always be a safety net.

    And you're right if you're saying there are other issues rather than just welfare for unemployment, eg lack of entrepreneurship in deprived areas. But in many cases there is a disincentive for people to move from benefits to low-paying work, even though in the long term that low-paying work is more likely to lead to better job prospects and more pay.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    And niether am I, where we differ is how we actually go about dealing those people who dont want to work. First of all we have to find out how many there really are, then we can look at what to do about them.

    Just making their life harder isnt going to change things, they have been playing the system for a while so know how to deal with it.

    We've got plenty of research on the issue - and local authorities have a very good idea at individual level.

    After all the changes to the system only cause a problem to a very small minority of people. The vast majority who are happy to work get guaranteed emplyoment, giving them confidence and restoring life skills.

    And if people play the system it's a good idea to change it. Then they need to learn the new rules.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Flashman's Ghost wrote: »
    We've got plenty of research on the issue - and local authorities have a very good idea at individual level.

    After all the changes to the system only cause a problem to a very small minority of people. The vast majority who are happy to work get guaranteed emplyoment, giving them confidence and restoring life skills.

    And if people play the system it's a good idea to change it. Then they need to learn the new rules.

    I can see the reason for changes, and if the investment is there for extra training, skills etc. then it could work. When various US states tried this they found it actually more expensive in the short to medium term.

    My concern is that they will make the changes but keep the current level of funding, and if thats the case then we will just see people suffer for no improvement in the system.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Applying for a job and being the one who gets it are two entirely different matters.
    Is the way to deal with unemployment really to punish people with dirty, demeaning tasks?
    Two of my brothers who were working, were deliberately forced out of their jobs in order to give them to immigrant labour so that firms could make more profit (fact, not prejudice). Try working on putting the squeeze on employers, maybe that would have better results.
    :banghead:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    columbine wrote: »
    Applying for a job and being the one who gets it are two entirely different matters.
    Is the way to deal with unemployment really to punish people with dirty, demeaning tasks?
    Two of my brothers who were working, were deliberately forced out of their jobs in order to give them to immigrant labour so that firms could make more profit (fact, not prejudice). Try working on putting the squeeze on employers, maybe that would have better results.
    :banghead:

    better enforcement of minumum wage and improving working conditions via legislation are the best way to stop people being dumped for cheap labour who have less grasp of their legal rights
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone who claims benefits is entering into a contract with the DWP when they sign on the dotted line.

    It may be an adhesion contract but a contract nonetheless. By signing you are agreeing to the terms and in this instance the small print can, and probably will, change frequently.

    A harsh fact of life. Do not sign anything you do not agree with.
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