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Lisbon treaty
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Does anyone ahve any understanding of this?
It seems like politicians are forcing this upon the people of europe, they have not even explained it to us or giving us a vote.
I'm glad ireland has made a stand against it. I would vote against it specifically because it's not explained to me and feels like i'm being excluded. I don't like being told what's good for me when i don't know what it is or is decided by people i don't know or have voted for.
I get the feeling though, that if the Irish government says "the treaty is dead" then they will be completely excluded and on that basis they will continue with the constitution.
We need to be able to vote.
It seems like politicians are forcing this upon the people of europe, they have not even explained it to us or giving us a vote.
I'm glad ireland has made a stand against it. I would vote against it specifically because it's not explained to me and feels like i'm being excluded. I don't like being told what's good for me when i don't know what it is or is decided by people i don't know or have voted for.
I get the feeling though, that if the Irish government says "the treaty is dead" then they will be completely excluded and on that basis they will continue with the constitution.
We need to be able to vote.
0
Comments
http://www.robert-schuman.eu/doc/divers/lisbonne/en/10fiches.pdf
The full monster :
http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/pdf1/lisbon-treaty
Lisbon Treaty myths as our government sees it :
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/fco-in-action/institutions/britain-in-the-european-union/global-europe/eu-lisbon-treaty/lisbon-treaty-myths
I agree. If a referendum had been allowed, all those leading the opposing campaigns would have ensured that the devil in the detail was laid out for all to understand, in layman's terms.
I suppose that the government is concerned that generally, people are animals of habit and just don't like change and would vote in opposition to the treaty based on that principle.
It does perhaps indicate that the government are not convinced that they could change the views of the majorty of the electorate ... and were hoping to just push it through.
What's this european police force then? that's what i'm interested in.
I want a referendum - but it's on the purely selfish reasons of a) giving the Labour Party a kicking and b) registering my opposition to a Federal EU.
I can see why the Government isn't keen.
Don't bloody promise one in your manifesto then. Besides, we should have had a referendum on Maastricht anyway.
I hear what you are saying but for instance, I don't quite understand all the "structural and legal" laws on tax. However, if I feel that I am being unfairly untaxed, I may choose to vote in another party at the election. I fear that once we do have a treay like Lisbon ratified, we will have a huge mountain to climb to ever get out again at a later date, so I would like to be involved in the decisions made about it now.
Of course, but surely you wouldn't expect a referendum on the tax structure?
No, I wouldn't. But I have the opportunity to change the effect that a government has on my taxes by voting against them in an election. But with the Lisbon Treaty, I have no say now - or in a future election. So my views on the Treaty are effectively voiceless - and I am sure that once we are in a Treaty, it will be almost impossible to get out of it.
Firstly, Ireland was a poor country when it started recieving aid off the EU. As late as 1992 there was a book published "Is Ireland a 3rd World Country?" Now, it's one of the healthiest economies in the entire world. So now they'll have to act as provider which many EU countries don't like, including your truly. Also, Ireland has a history of protectionist and isolationist ideals. It's not like the whole of Irish society wanted to be part of the EU anyway.
Like the Nice Treaty, they're going to keep sending it through until Ireland says "yes". So it's inevitable really.
I like our country being an individual and not tied down to it's decisions which it ihnk really, it will be in some sense because of the interests with other countries eg if you do this then we will stop xxx
I don't know, i'm rambling on about this that i don't even know are true butt hat's the point we just don't know and i tihnk we should.
also apparently 80% of the proposals are ALREADY within the current constitutions power to change. Something like that anyway.
Secondly, let's ask this question. What does the EU do nowadays that is good for us? The money that we pay every year into this dreadful organisation seems to be pocketed mainly by its many corrupt MEPs, whose expenses claims would make even Westminster MPs blush. All the EU seems to do is impose new rules and regulations on our businesses and endlessly try to grab new powers for itself. It's doing everything possible in order to destroy our fishing industry and it does its best to prevent Britain from imposing proper border controls. The EU has long abandoned the claim that it's a trade organisation, and is now run by despots who are desperate to create a superstate to rival the USA.
Which brings me to the Liberal Democrats, incidentally. Their position on this has been shifty beyond belief. The permanently pathetic Nick Clegg decided to abandon their manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on this poisonous treaty. They acted in cahoots with Failed Labour in order to willingly deceive the public, telling the same lies that Macavity used. Instead, they wish to have a referendum on whether we should stay or leave the European Union. It isn't often that I agree with the party which gave us the truly odious Mark Oaten, (the man involved in a gay sex scandal with a rent boy a few years ago, lest anyone forget) but I think I have to on this occasion. Let us have a referendum which asks the question: "Do you believe that the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland should remain a member of the European Union? Yes or no".
I'm absolutely certain that the British public would agree with my view that Britain does not need this nasty, dictatorial union. That's the referendum we should be having, and having now. The sooner we're out, the better.
As for the Irish telling the EU to fuck off, it's simple. If almost the entire Irish political establishment (which is almost certainly as smug and self-serving as the one we're lumbered with in this country) is saying that something is good for you, no one is going to believe them. Doubtless the Irish will be told to vote again until they come up with the wrong answer, in favour of this awful constitution. To the Irish, I say - good on you, and keep telling Europe to go fuck itself. What a shame our leaders can't do the same.