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Berlusconi makes illegal immigration a crime

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Get your facts right: illegal immigrants do not get "hand outs" of any kind, and they don't come here looking for them.
    Illegal immigrants can't get hand outs because they're not registered citizens. I think Territt was referring to asylum seekers.

    The fact is that nobody (including you Aladdin) knows the individual circumstances of an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker.

    But entering a country without a permit is still against the law.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote: »
    Illegal immigrants can't get hand outs because they're not registered citizens. I think Territt was referring to asylum seekers.

    The fact is that nobody (including you Aladdin) knows the individual circumstances of an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker.

    But entering a country without a permit is still against the law.

    in regards to asylum seekers, how do you propose someone applies for it if they're actually suffering persecution in their home country? to apply for asylum you have to arrive in the country you're going to do it in first.....

    this countries embassies refuses visas for people coming from iraq (who are going to apply for asylum) for example when it's us who put the country in that state
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote: »
    Illegal immigrants can't get hand outs because they're not registered citizens. I think Territt was referring to asylum seekers.

    The fact is that nobody (including you Aladdin) knows the individual circumstances of an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker.

    But entering a country without a permit is still against the law.
    Well, what we know for sure is that contrary to the malicious rumours and lies spread by some, illegal immigrants don't get anything at all from the State. And incidentally, asylum seekers get little more than piss-poor supermarket vouchers that don't stretch much more than a few tins of Tesco Value baked beans.

    So we know that even if a few illegal immigrants came here with the idea of "milking the system" and "getting hand outs", they get bugger all from us. We also know, through the many reports in the media and from the government, that countless illegal immigrants are working to pay for their existence in the UK, and they make a valuable contribution to our society.

    So I say that the fact that they broke the law by entering the UK without the valid papers is pretty inconsequential. I'd much rather have a million "illegal" immigrants leading decent lives and working to sustain themselves than 1 native Englishman breaking the speed limit. Something that not only is happily ignored by many of those supposedly outraged upright citizens, but that is far more serious and dangerous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    The argument that there is a need to control immigration is quite different from whether those who have entered the country illegally are "criminals", or indeed whether anyone should think they're not worthy of being here because they have broken the law.

    The law is there to control immigration, a person who breaks the law is a criminal, whether you personally think they are 'worthy' of being here or not; and I don't see how you know that seeing as you don't know why they're here. Nobody knows whether they are 'worthy' or not if they decide to bypass the law to get here.
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Even those who were not escaping tragic and very serious circumstances and who simply were trying to lead a better life out of poverty deserve our sympathy. If the country cannot take and infinite number of them, send some back by all means, but let's not suggest people are not worthy of being here becaue they broke the law by coming here without a visa. There is nothing wrong with people trying to secure a decent life for themselves and escape poverty.

    No there isn't, but they should follow the laws of the country they are 'escaping' to. If you break the law and are not a citizen of that country, then that country has every right to kick you out. The immigration and asylum systems decide who is 'worthy' to be here and who is not, and many do follow the rules.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Runnymede wrote: »
    The law is there to control immigration, a person who breaks the law is a criminal, whether you personally think they are 'worthy' of being here or not; and I don't see how you know that seeing as you don't know why they're here. Nobody knows whether they are 'worthy' or not if they decide to bypass the law to get here.

    No there isn't, but they should follow the laws of the country they are 'escaping' to. If you break the law and are not a citizen of that country, then that country has every right to kick you out. The immigration and asylum systems decide who is 'worthy' to be here and who is not, and many do follow the rules.
    You do realise that in many (probably most) scenarios it is actually impossible to flee to another country without breaking the law, right?

    Presumably people should just stay put. They will be hacked to death or die of starvation, but at least they will die as an honest and law-abiding person.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    You do realise that in many (probably most) scenarios it is actually impossible to flee to another country without breaking the law, right?

    Presumably people should just stay put. They will be hacked to death or die of starvation, but at least they will die as an honest and law-abiding person.

    An asylum seeker who asks for asylum at a port or in the country is not breaking the law, that is how they're supposed to seek asylum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they don't contact the authorities immediately they are breaking the law. Many arrive concealed in lorries or freight trains and manage to jump off many miles away from the port.

    Nor that terrified semi-literate man from deepest Africa without any English would be expected to know what rules about asylum seeking are as he arrives in a strange country for the first time and is afraid of being deported right back.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw a BBC programme the other day on immigration e.t.c. and one of the cases was quite intresting. A guy from Africa who was waiting for his case to be heard. He shared a box flat with 6/7 other guys and was given £40 a week in food vouchers. Watching him make a cup of tea using a CAN of value milk brought it home how little these guys get.
    I think he's been deported now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And lo and behold, a wave of racism is reported to be forming in Italy coupled with attacks on Gypsies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7423165.stm

    We can only hope Italians will see sense one day and give that cunt the same treatment they ended up giving to his no doubt inspirational hero, Musolini.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    And lo and behold, a wave of racism is reported to be forming in Italy coupled with attacks on Gypsies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7423165.stm

    We can only hope Italians will see sense one day and give that cunt the same treatment they ended up giving to his no doubt inspirational hero, Musolini.


    I've been to Naples, and it's a complete toilet. I could find nothing redeeming about the place, some guy tried to sell us a laptop in front of a cop car which shows how tough on crime they are in Italy.

    Although I do agree with the plans to make it illegal to use kids to beg for money, annoying little bastards, when you don't give them anything they try and steal it anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think this is possibly just another attack on berlusconi using limited facts and banking on peoples lack of understanding on how the country works, as things stand the goverment has very little control over the country and immigrants illigal ones are very very plentiful. He may not have made a totaly foolproof way of preventing it but hes trying what did the last goverment do about it ? I'll tell you NOTHING why is it that every time this man makes an effort he is "shot down" the last goverment made no effort at all as long as they got their money they let the country go to pot. I'm sorry folks but i luived there and most of you have no idea at all of how the country works or what poples mentality is there are many illigal immigrants that work there and the police know about them and do nothing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »

    Although I do agree with the plans to make it illegal to use kids to beg for money, annoying little bastards, when you don't give them anything they try and steal it anyway.

    perhaps thats because the parents or "guardinas" beat the shit out of them unless they return home with a minimum amount of money and that minimum is probably as much as you earn in a day mate ! and one group controls many kids, the criminals are not the kids but the people that use them

    and yes naples is a toilet in case someone forgot to tell you the mafia have more control over naples than the goverment although burlusconis goverment have been making arests the other goverment just ignored the situation !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    And lo and behold, a wave of racism is reported to be forming in Italy coupled with attacks on Gypsies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7423165.stm

    We can only hope Italians will see sense one day and give that cunt the same treatment they ended up giving to his no doubt inspirational hero, Musolini.

    the italians are rascist against any foreigners the news in italy has highlighted crimes being commited by imigrants. I was constantly harassed there even though I just kept to myself. and the news uses every occasion possible to mock the english. the itlians will never have a sense of common well being (something we are lossing fast in the UK as well) in Italy its dog eat dog
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