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the democracy of sentences for murder

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And the job of the warders would be impossible.
    Most murders are commited in the family not on the street against the general public.
    If you knew you had no hope of ever being released ...you could act in any manner you thought fit ...making prison an impossible place to live or work.
    The chance of one day being able to leave prison gives the authorities some power over your behaviour.

    That's true yea but what about in america?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I don't know the history or psycology of grief if that's what you're asking, but I have had close relatives that have died, leading to serious depression in other relatives. But those relatives still had to continue as normal, after a few months they were prescribed medication but other than that there were no allowences made for them, which seems to be normal. People who've lost someone they care about are given, at best, a few days then expected to continue as before, except for maybe half an hour in the evening when they've been to work and their children are asleep, and if it's a child they'll get even less time.

    So what has changed in the last 1000 years?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shogun wrote: »
    That's true yea but what about in america?
    Whaaa?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whaaa?

    There are those in america who get life and it means life.

    What about the prison wardens over there then was what i was getting at.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shogun wrote: »
    There are those in america who get life and it means life.

    What about the prison wardens over there then was what i was getting at.
    Ahhh ...i haven't a clue.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what has changed in the last 1000 years?

    Nothing. We still live in a country that doesn't believe in allowing grief.

    I have heard of people in America being sentenced for over 100 years so I don't really know how the wardens over there deal with that. Maybe they use the possiblity of more punishment rather than the possibility of getting out early?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nothing. We still live in a country that doesn't believe in allowing grief.

    I have heard of people in America being sentenced for over 100 years so I don't really know how the wardens over there deal with that. Maybe they use the possiblity of more punishment rather than the possibility of getting out early?

    That's what i was getting at rolly. :yeees:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nothing. We still live in a country that doesn't believe in allowing grief.

    What do you propose, 5 years off work once someone close dies?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    What do you propose, 5 years off work once someone close dies?

    Yes. That's exactly what the world needs. That and free chocolate.

    I was originally trying to point out that the victim's families have to carry on as they were before, so why shouldn't the killers have to do something they don't want to do?
    Obviously the world can't stop because someone has died, and people won't be able to shut the world out so they can deal with their loss. Maybe we could listen to people instead of immideately suggesting that they turn to drugs? Or accept that it's OK for them to make some mistakes at work, or leave early they day before the funeral? Or, as insane as this sounds, maybe if someone who's not immediate family dies, they could actually get to go to the funeral?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was originally trying to point out that the victim's families have to carry on as they were before, so why shouldn't the killers have to do something they don't want to do?

    You think killers want to go to prison? :crazyeyes
    Or, as insane as this sounds, maybe if someone who's not immediate family dies, they could actually get to go to the funeral?

    I'm not sure what employers are like your neck of the woods but I've never encountered someone who wasn't allowed to go to a friends funeral. I agree though that prescribing drugs is not the right way to go about things, councelling and discourse is more effective.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think killers want to go to prison. I think they would probably prefer to die and have it over with quickly, but their victims didn't get that so they should either.
    When I said people should be able to go to funerals I was thinking more of schools that needed to keep their attendence stats up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think killers want to go to prison. I think they would probably prefer to die and have it over with quickly, but their victims didn't get that so they should either.

    You think killers would want to die? Even more confusing, some do, most don't.
    When I said people should be able to go to funerals I was thinking more of schools that needed to keep their attendence stats up.

    Even more ridiculous, when I was in school one of my classmates father died. The school took the whole year group to the funeral!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shogun wrote: »
    That's true yea but what about in america?

    They end up with the largest prison population (per capita) in the developed world, the highest rates of crime, high reoffending rates and a huge problem with gang violence in prisons. We really should never be using America as a model for treating our prisoners.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I no longer believe that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for a crime, regardless of how heinous the crime was. Partly, this is because I deem it unacceptable for the state to have such a power over people's lives. Mainly however, my reasoning is that it is ultimately counter-productive and provides an easy way out for the person who has committed the crime.

    Allow me to provide an example - Ian Huntley. In 2003, he was convicted of murdering in cold blood, two 10-year-old girls - Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman. He is unlikely to be even considered for release from prison until the 2040s, and the Lord Chancellor used a Sunday newspaper interview in March last year to state that Huntley was among a number of prisoners who should never be released, on the grounds that this "is what the public expect".

    Since his imprisonment, several tabloid newspapers have reported on numerous suicide attempts that Huntley has allegedly made. Whilst it's very difficult to verify whether these claims are true, they demonstrate one thing - they shatter the myth peddled by certain elements in the media that prison life is like a tea party. The crux of the issue is this - if it was revealed that Huntley had successfully committed suicide, who on earth would actually shed a tear for him? Somehow, I'm not convinced that anyone would. Even the wettest liberal would struggle to work up any sympathy for this man.

    No, the current system of imprisonment for a long time for heinous crimes is the correct one for our society to follow. However, in order for this to work properly, politicians must stop using prisons as social dustbins to hide the problems that they have failed to remedy. Unfortunately, there is no sign of this happening - hence why crime continues to increase, our prisons are completely full, and why confidence in the justice system remains low.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think killers want to go to prison. I think they would probably prefer to die and have it over with quickly, but their victims didn't get that so they should either.
    When I said people should be able to go to funerals I was thinking more of schools that needed to keep their attendence stats up.
    You don't make a lot of sense ...i think you just make up these ideas off the top of your head as opposed to having any experience or research to back up these outlandish statements.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You don't make a lot of sense ...i think you just make up these ideas off the top of your head as opposed to having any experience or research to back up these outlandish statements.

    I went to a school where so few people actually turned up they had to keep the stats up. Before my aunt died I'd missed a lot of time looking after my brother so the school said they'd send social workers round and begin court proceedings if I missed another day. My cousins were allowed the morning off but had to go in for the afternoon.
    I hope that this is rare and more to do with the area you live in and what insane government targets have been put on the school, but it does show that grief isn't really taken into account in many situations.
    I think being in prison is a punishment that most people should want to aviod, even if the killers don't want to die at the begining, they probably will after a few years. I think death would be too easy for them, and it looks bad for a society if they have capital punishment, which murderers aren't really worth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Before my aunt died I'd missed a lot of time looking after my brother so the school said they'd send social workers round and begin court proceedings if I missed another day..
    And someone could have ended up in jail ...on four quid a week ...for being a criminal?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And someone could have ended up in jail ...on four quid a week ...for being a criminal?

    No, because I decided not to break the law and went to school instead, but I would like to point out there's a difference between studying at home to take care of a disabled family member and killing someone, taking dangerous illegal drugs or whatever crime you think shouldn't be a crime.
    Why should the murderers that are being discussed get paid to do nothing? They've destroyed people and should be punished for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why should the murderers that are being discussed get paid to do nothing? They've destroyed people and should be punished for it.

    So you believe they shouldn't be able to buy soap ...and you believe they aint suffering if they can have a fag whilst they sit and rot for the next however many years? I don't want them to have a good time either but niether do i want to live in a country as uncivilesd as the one your dreaming of.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And ...can you point me to a country where grief is 'allowed'?
    I lost my mum to cancer when i was 21 ...it was very upsetting at the time ...i aint grieving for her now. My dad remarried five years later ...his grief was over.
    I don't think a day goes by that i don't think of some of the people whoo i have lost over the years but ...how long do you think people grieve for ...should grieve?
    Death loss unforseen circumstance effect everyone of us ...it's part of life.
    Can you imagine in the second world war ...Liverpool docks blitzed again ...again three hundred men dead ...another ten children in the city ...wives mothers sisters lost ...you would phone Hitler and ask him to stop for five years while we grieve?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest I don't care if murderers can have soap. I don't care if they have food. They are plenty of people who have less and they've done nothing wrong. You can but soap for £4 so £4 a week is enough.
    There are countries that seem to be more accepting of grief that Britian, but it isn't really practical which is why people have to carry on anyway. The reason I mentioned it was to point out that the families of murder victims don't get an escape, they have to continue, one of the reasons I don't agree with capital punishment is because it would be over for the killer relatively quickly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest I don't care if murderers can have soap. I don't care if they have food. .
    I do care ...and i would never want to live in a society that doesn't.
    You don't care ...i pray people like you never get any kind of authority or power.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do care ...and i would never want to live in a society that doesn't.
    You don't care ...i pray people like you never get any kind of authority or power.

    To be honest I would never trust myself to be in any power because it's too easy to become corrupt and self-absorbed, but that's a seperate issue.
    As you've said, you do care, just as many others do. I'm sure that I care about a lot of things when you don't. Soap for prisoners isn't really one of my priorities.
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