Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Population control.

2»

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given something like 25% of food in the Western World is thrown away uneaten I'd say we have a waste problem, not a food problem.

    Huge amounts of farm produce is just thrown out because we all want uniform fruit and veg.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the world was overpopulated then we'd all be starving and going without. The Earth has considerable capacity left I'd say.

    I say extinction-level event, our ancestors survived the last comet to hit Earth, chances are we'd survive the next one.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If the world was overpopulated then we'd all be starving and going without. The Earth has considerable capacity left I'd say.

    Many are starving, and if rice and corn prices continue to rise many many more will go without.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Instead of encouraging birth rate by tax relief and other ways, we should reward child-free relationships and families with no more than one child. Instead of mulling over pointless "ethical" issues...
    What about some of the incredibly disturbing stories to come out of China because of their one-child policy? Doesn't that count for anything? And as much as I loathe to make things personal in debates like this, does this mean you won't be having a child with your own partner?
    ...We should distribute free contraception to everyone, including minors. Specially in the developing world.
    Aside from the moral questions that handing condoms to minors would raise, there's one other issue - practicality. How on earth are you going to manufacture billions of condoms, and then distribute them for free? The money to produce all of those has to come from somewhere.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A condom costs a lot less than another mouth to feed.

    We could bring in The Modest Proposal.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    A condom costs a lot less than another mouth to feed.
    The point remains - it's going to cost a lot of money to manufacture billions of condoms, then distribute them to people across the world. Where is the money going to come from? Perhaps the United Nations could get involved in such an idea?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    The point remains - it's going to cost a lot of money to manufacture billions of condoms, then distribute them to people across the world. Where is the money going to come from? Perhaps the United Nations could get involved in such an idea?

    I doubt it, the US would over rule it because they dont like condoms being given out.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    More people also means more land used for farming and housing, resulting in the destruction of many natural habitats which in turn result in a reduction of flora and fauna that is going to affect our food supply. It's a vicious circle, and a particularly vicious one at that.
    And m0re and more land going to feed our machines which is insanity.
    The EU has decided to stall biofuel regulations which would have seen the EU doing what the UK did last week ...introducing a minimum of biofuel into petrol sold on the forecourt ...cos guess what ...growing food for machines is forcing the price of food up and causing hunger ...something some of us dimwits foresaw a couple of years back ...which brings me back to mismanagement again. The people we rely on to make things work can't seem to see beyond the end of their noses and don't have the common sense of the ordinary man in the street.
    Rain forrest is now being stripped faster than ever for fuel.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I think it's more an issue of equity / distribution because of political issues. We are better off as a species now :p
    Of course WE ...are. But millions aren't and the number of hungry is rising at an alarming rate.
    The very technology that has given us so much is the very technology that is now threatening to destroy millions of us. It seems to me to be a bit like religion ...blind faith in false gods. The god we are looking to to save us is the very same god that is wrecking the planet.
    I can't summon up that kind of faith as i tend to believe what i see.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    birth control has only a limited amount of impact - better pensions and healthcare is more effecvtive. poor people have children to look after them when they go old (in Western Europe birth rates declined rapidly after pensions were introduced even though there was hardly any change in birth control at the same time)
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    birth control has only a limited amount of impact - better pensions and healthcare is more effecvtive. poor people have children to look after them when they go old (in Western Europe birth rates declined rapidly after pensions were introduced even though there was hardly any change in birth control at the same time)
    And the pensions situation is terrible and can only get worse.
    whoever owns the means of production creates and owns all the wealth. The production has moved elswhere and in the UK we don't even have natural resources to fall back on to make money ...apart from coal of course which is set to make a big comeback ...in desperation.
    So who is going to pay for your pension ...the Chinese ...the Indians?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course WE ...are. But millions aren't and the number of hungry is rising at an alarming rate.
    The very technology that has given us so much is the very technology that is now threatening to destroy millions of us. It seems to me to be a bit like religion ...blind faith in false gods. The god we are looking to to save us is the very same god that is wrecking the planet.
    I can't summon up that kind of faith as i tend to believe what i see.

    You're missing my point though. Your argument is that the world has reached capacity, in much the same way as if you fill a bucket of water too much. It will overflow. As humans we are able to increase the capacity for humanity to a varying degree i.e. increase the size of the proverbial bucket, and if we measure the standards of living across the world (I included China, where it is increasing much faster than here) by every quarter century it has increased.

    What this means in my very simplistic view of things is the bucket is getting bigger faster than we are growing to fill it. Yes there is a limit but I just see no evidence otherwise. The reason poor people in poor countries are starving is because of the capitalist profit system. We have plenty and they don't have enough. If it was perfect and things were shared, everyone would have enough. Overpopulation is the point where if things were shared, not everyone would have enough.

    The amount of food per head if taken in the wider context has only ever increased though. If you look at it today to last year, you may be right in saying there is less now. But food riots are not because there is not food available, but because of political and economic factors prohibit those people who need food from getting it. Every few years in India there is a drought and the crops fail, but they could import food if they had the money, it's just unfortunate that they don't, and instead we import it - although as buddha says the massive problem is waste.

    I think overpopulation will be an issue in the future but I honestly can't say I've seen any justification for it being the case now.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    The reason poor people in poor countries are starving is because of the capitalist profit system. We have plenty and they don't have enough. If it was perfect and things were shared, everyone would have enough. Overpopulation is the point where if things were shared, not everyone would have enough.

    I think bashing the 'capitalistic profit system' is unwarranted. Globally rice production is set to reach a record high for 2007-8. The problem is that the major Asian exporters are hoarding grain as a store of value because the dollar's going to shit.
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    But food riots are not because there is not food available, but because of political and economic factors prohibit those people who need food from getting it.

    Precisely.
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Every few years in India there is a drought and the crops fail, but they could import food if they had the money, it's just unfortunate that they don't, and instead we import it - although as buddha says the massive problem is waste.

    India does have the money to import it. The market could provide for all if it was allowed to work freely. If governments weren't listening to lobby groups and taking up land for bio-fuels, or subsidising inefficient native farmers. The global south is better suited for growing things. Give them the technological know-how to farm efficiently and to increase crop yields, get rid of tariffs, and let the invisible hand of the market do its thing.
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I think overpopulation will be an issue in the future but I honestly can't say I've seen any justification for it being the case now.

    It isn't at all. But you'll always get misanthropic Thomas Malthus types with a weird desire to see less babies being born, and who see contraceptives as a silver bullet going on about 'overpopulation'.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe in the free market, I'm not bashing the capitalist system. I'm saying it's part of the reason why we will waste resources and won't share them equitably. I'm actually reading around about an essay to do with this, if we remove all barriers we all win theoretically but because we have a few barriers it tends to work in some countries favours. So those with better trading power like the UK get extremely good deals and those with worse trading power get bad deals. It won't change soon because rich people are making money, I'm not bashing that, but that's the way it is.
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    budda wrote: »
    We'd use far more resources just getting there than we'd get. And anyway there arent any Goldilocks planets anywhere near for us to colonise.

    A few rockets don't cost THAT much, not like we aren't using those reasources anyway to launch Murdoc's Sky TV satelites and shit.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We could live on Mars.

    But terraforming the planet (which we could begin right now) would take at least 300 years for it to be remotely habitable.

    Unfortunately when you stand for an election, how do you justify increasing tax revenues to send rockets full of algae or whatever it is to Mars. No chance :(

    If you have time to spare, look on www.ted.com, it's basically intellectuals on all sorts of subjects giving talks. It's really interesting because there are some really basic things that crop up - an astronomer points out there is no government funded organisation in the world that seeks out asteroids that might hit the earth, it's all amatuer. And so on and so forth.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    You're missing my point though. Your argument is that the world has reached capacity,
    The reason poor people in poor countries are starving is because of the capitalist profit system.
    food riots are not because there is not food available, but because of political and economic factors prohibit those people who need food from getting it. Every few years in India there is a drought and the crops fail, but they could import food if they had the money, it's just unfortunate that they don't, and instead we import it -
    I think overpopulation will be an issue in the future but I honestly can't say I've seen any justification for it being the case now.
    No i 'mn not saying the world has reached capacity ...i'm wondering if the time has come when certain people will see it as advantagous to cull a large number of humans becuase life would be so much easier in more or less every respect, especialy with the technology we now have.It would ease the stress on the planet and slow down the depletion of resources for starters.
    As for the current food crisis ...India and China have more than enough money to buy up food ...and they are doing in massive ammounts. this is forcing the price of all foodstuffs up dramaticaly. As well as metals and oil and everything else on the planet. If you have fifty thousand tons of grain for sale you can almost gaurantee that China/ India will outbid everyone for it.
    Millions of acres of land across the globe are now growing crops to feed machines instead of people ...again forcing prices up and up. Are you not aware of the current food crisis?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Food crisis ...

    http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2104849.0.2008_the_year_of_global_food_crisis.php

    Hunger. Strikes. Riots. The food crisis bitesAcross the world a crisis is unfolding at alarming speed. Climate change, China's increasing consumption and the dash for biofuels are causing food shortages and rocketing prices - sparking riots in cities from the Caribbean to the Far East. Robin McKie and Heather Stewart report on the millions facing starvation - and the growing threat to global security

    Just type food crisis into google and you can read some alarming stuff.
    coupled with economic problems ...wars ...job losses ...pension crisis ...rising energy costs ...iut makes for grim reading and some of you think the answer is to move to mars before xmas!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The use of land for bio-fuels is only part of the picture, there are also traders making extra money, drought or reduced harvests etc.

    The most direct link between bio-fuel and food prices in in Central America and corn. The US is using corn for ethanol and Mexico and other countries are seeing a huge increase in price in their staple.

    If the CAP didnt make it cheaper for people in West Africa to import powdered milk made in the EU they would make it themselves. The tarifs and export subsidies we put on food is massively reducing food production in Africa.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Look, i know war is an ugly word, but if you really want to slash down the world population there needs to be a massive conventional war in which pretty much everyone on both sides die... with no superpower intervention, no UN sending in peacekeepers, just an old fashioned guns for glory, completely pointless, no one wins, no reason to it war where 100 million end up dead inside a year or 2. Surely the sudden reduction of 100 million people would alleviate pressure on resources as a short term stop gap measure. Thats a way to cut the population down, which is going back to the original post in the thread.

    As for the many posts that followed, the costs are sky rocketing, population in Britain and the fact that fuel for everything, cars, buses and especially haulage is out of control. i mean 65p in every £1 of fuel is taken as tax by the government... and because transport is so expensive, retailers have to put up prices to compensate, its an endless cycle all because of out of control taxes on fuel.

    This does not deminish the massive demands of course... we need free condoms handed out everywhere, we need incentives to not have kids, we need to stop the perminant movement of people in and out of countries until we have some sort of stabalised populations and we NEED to stop fucking about with bullshit redtape health and safety local council and big government nanny state fines cunting about shitness... as well.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bullseye where we reach intollerable overpopulation war / conflict is inevitable. When someone has no food but his neighbour does, he or she is much more likely to take up arms to try and get some.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Bullseye where we reach intollerable overpopulation war / conflict is inevitable. When someone has no food but his neighbour does, he or she is much more likely to take up arms to try and get some.

    I think you are ignoring the levels of technology now. We can no longer go to war as we once did on a global scale due to nuclear arms. They make conventional warfare for the "Great Powers" a thing of the past. Only "small" wars, which usually are one sided genocides (see Sudan) take place these days and not on a scale large enough to affect the whole world in a way to have an impact on population reduction.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yanks will be nuking Iran ...very soon. Russians have been told by Bush ...that if they interfere ...America will collapse the western world economicly which will cripple Russia ...had a link but can't find it ...will look. Beeeg killing coming to a middle eastern country near you ...soon.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1. US is preparing to attack the Iranian military installations linked to subversion in Iraq. The operation will widen out into strikes on the Islamic Republic?s suspect nuclear sites.

    2. Israel will use the chance for a concurrent attack on Syria.

    3. Israel will attack Hizballah?s strongholds in Lebanon.

    4. A broad, coordinated US-Israeli offensive will be mounted against Iran, Syria and Hizballah.

    Iran and Syria view Israel?s four-day home defense exercise against missile attack, conventional or non-conventional, beginning Sunday, as setting the stage for these attacks.


    John McGlynn is an independent Tokyo-based economic and financial analyst. He has prepared his own version of what is taking place calling it Day of Infamy: The March 20, 2008 US Declaration of War on Iran . He writes ?March 20, 2008, destined to be another day of infamy. On this date the US officially declared war on Iran. But it?s not going to be the kind of war many have been expecting.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They kept the war quiet if it started on the 20th of March.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    A few rockets don't cost THAT much, not like we aren't using those reasources anyway to launch Murdoc's Sky TV satelites and shit.

    There is a massive difference between pushing a satelite into orbit and even getting to the moon, let alone getting the Mars. And even if we got to Mars getting anything back would mean carrying another rocket to get back. The whole process would be far too costly.

    Anyway, we dont want to be colonising places like Mars, we need to get to a Goldilocks planet that way we've got a much better chance of a self sustaining occupation.
Sign In or Register to comment.