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Can stolen email be classed as evidence in court??

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I gave a good friend my Paypal password 2 years ago as we were both selling on ebay together.

However we since fallen out good style and we are now going through a court hearing,Im representing myself due to being over the limit for Legal Aid.

I have found out that she has been into my HOTMAIL account and deleted most of my evidence that I had for the court hearing,I never ever gave her permission to go into my hotmail account.(my hotmail account has the same password)

She has also been into another forum board and looked at my "private messages"where you can send messages on a "one to one" to another person on the forum board,again it was the same password as my paypal and hotmail account.

Now I know you will say I was ridiculous for having the same password to all three(and I now agree) and I have definatly changed my passwords now.

But on the forum board, she printed off the "private messages"I have sent to other people and she is using these in court next month as evidence.

Was she entiltled to do this just because she had my password for paypal only,was she entiltled to try the password and get into my hotmail and forum board and can she use these in court as evidence??

I never gave her permission to go into my email addresses but she thinks she can go into these and delete and print off my private messages.

I hope somebody may help me with this if possible,thank you.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that you should really ask someone with proper legal qualifications on this, but my personal views are that since you let them use the paypal, whats to stop them saying you let them use the email as well, and the forums, after all you had allready given them the password to one thing willingly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tbh shes a bit fucked as any of your private information anywhere is protected by data protection laws. If you get on the phone to hotmail or get your solicitor to do so there is a fair chance they may be able to retrieve the e-mails. They take logs of all activity going in and out of accounts, so if she accessed your email they will have an IP she connected from and all that.

    As MrG said I would seek legal advice. And besides, if she's printed those PMs off the internet, whats to say she didn't cook them up in word?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    I think that you should really ask someone with proper legal qualifications on this, but my personal views are that since you let them use the paypal, whats to stop them saying you let them use the email as well, and the forums, after all you had allready given them the password to one thing willingly.


    Hi MrG,
    Many thanks indeed for your quick response.
    I guess you are right about them saying I could of given her my password to hotmail and the forum board as well but I havent spoken to her for 18 months yet I only joined the forum board last November so I couldnt have given her the password to that.
    I can prove I have not spoken to her for the past 16 months at least and I can prove I joined the forum board only last November so I couldnt of given her my permission to log in as me and print my private messages to other people.

    I may have to see a solicitor,thank you for your help MrG
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    tbh shes a bit fucked as any of your private information anywhere is protected by data protection laws. If you get on the phone to hotmail or get your solicitor to do so there is a fair chance they may be able to retrieve the e-mails. They take logs of all activity going in and out of accounts, so if she accessed your email they will have an IP she connected from and all that.

    As MrG said I would seek legal advice. And besides, if she's printed those PMs off the internet, whats to say she didn't cook them up in word?


    Could she actually alter the wording in these private messages that she printed off shyboy?,is it possible to do that??
    If thats the case then they couldnt be used as evidence in court if there was a chance of them being altered.
    As you can tell,Im not very good on computers!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    She could've copied them into word and altered them that way before printing them off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thank you for your reply lea-uk,it looks like I will have to go to see a solicitor about this,if only to get confirmation on whether or not they can be classed as evidence in court especially if you can alter them to any words of your choosing.

    I will need to find out if it is illegal what she has done,by that I mean going into my accounts(apart from paypal)without my permission and retrieving my emails,she also must of looked at all my other information on my hotmail and forum board as well in order for her to delete my evidence for the court.

    Thank you everyone for your replies,so very much appreciated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    TorquayBoy wrote: »
    I will need to find out if it is illegal what she has done,by that I mean going into my accounts(apart from paypal)without my permission and retrieving my emails,she also must of looked at all my other information on my hotmail and forum board as well in order for her to delete my evidence for the court.

    Whilst it may be illegal, it's your fault for having the same password for Hotmail.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you prove you havnt had contact with someone?

    Its very difficult to be honest!


    And as for having the same password for multiple accounts, i will again say, whats to stop her saying you gave her the passwords for all of them, at different times.

    As for using the PM's and emails they can easily be altered etc, whilst it may be dubious how she has got ahold of them, im not sure you could complain too much, because of what is (i know you were not aware) lax security on your behalf.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh believe me,Im the first one to hold my hands up and know that I have been utterly and completly stupid having the same password on these three things.
    Its a very hard lesson to learn because of my own stupidity.

    The other person has added in her statement that she has had no contact whatsoever with me in the past 16 months and I also added that in my statement to court so this will prove that I was not in contact with her in November last year when I first joined the forum board.

    Its such a mess.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Legally speaking if the police had done this for a criminal case without RIPA authorisation or a warrant then the case would be thrown out of court immediately. I'd be surprised if the rules for a civil case would be much different although I know the burden of proof is a lot lower.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If she had the password, how can she prove that she didn't send them herself?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Legally speaking if the police had done this for a criminal case without RIPA authorisation or a warrant then the case would be thrown out of court immediately. I'd be surprised if the rules for a civil case would be much different although I know the burden of proof is a lot lower.

    Its a family law case not a civil case,does that make alot of difference??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If she had the password, how can she prove that she didn't send them herself?


    Thats true,I never thought of that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You might want to try asking the legal people who answer our questions for askTheSite -

    http://www.thesite.org/community/askthesite

    You may also want to contact hotmail if you haven't already about the deleted emails - sometimes things can be found even if they've been deleted.

    Good luck, sorry I haven't much more to add but it does seem a pretty complicated legal issue.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea this was on hollyoaks not long ago, (lol), basically someone had pictures of kids on his laptop, someone nicked it and gave it to the police - but the police can't use the evidence because it could have been tampered with.

    If you don't mind me asking (if you're allowed to), can you elaborate on any of the details a bit more? All I can tell you is that her accessing any of your private information / correspondence is against the law and unless you get a dodgy judge (possible - there was a judge recently that gave a judgement against some guys because they had 'deleted records' but this information was only ever stored in volatile RAM that gets wiped when you close down the computer / shut down applications) the evidence should as far as I know be inadmissable. It's the same as her going through your mail because you gave her a key to your mailbox and never changed it / asked for it back. She has no right whatsoever and to try and use something she took against you is ridiculous.

    But I'm not a legal person, I just try and follow what I see as common sense as normally the law does follow whats fair and/or common sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    You might want to try asking the legal people who answer our questions for askTheSite -

    http://www.thesite.org/community/askthesite

    You may also want to contact hotmail if you haven't already about the deleted emails - sometimes things can be found even if they've been deleted.

    Good luck, sorry I haven't much more to add but it does seem a pretty complicated legal issue.

    Thank you very much for the link Jim V,I shall take a look at it.
    Yes I contacted Hotmail and sadly they couldnt retrieve the emails that she deleted.
    I really appreciate all of your replies.Thank you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Viewing something you've been given permission to look at isn't against the law. Just because data protection protects you doesn't mean you can't choose to waive those rights - otherwise it'd be illegal to ever show anyone a letter from your mum...

    The fact she had the password to the paypal account may mean, as others have mentioned, that she'd claim that you also gave her access to your hotmail account and allowed her to read your emails and access the forum account.

    If that's she claimed that and was believed then I'm afraid I don't see how the DPA would possibly apply.

    The fact you didn't change the password when things went wrong might also seem a little questionable, though an understandable oversight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea I guess if that was believed, but it's not the case here. I guess courts should try and strive for the truth. I guess I could class myself as lawful good ;):p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Yea this was on hollyoaks not long ago, (lol), basically someone had pictures of kids on his laptop, someone nicked it and gave it to the police - but the police can't use the evidence because it could have been tampered with.

    If you don't mind me asking (if you're allowed to), can you elaborate on any of the details a bit more? All I can tell you is that her accessing any of your private information / correspondence is against the law and unless you get a dodgy judge (possible - there was a judge recently that gave a judgement against some guys because they had 'deleted records' but this information was only ever stored in volatile RAM that gets wiped when you close down the computer / shut down applications) the evidence should as far as I know be inadmissable. It's the same as her going through your mail because you gave her a key to your mailbox and never changed it / asked for it back. She has no right whatsoever and to try and use something she took against you is ridiculous.

    But I'm not a legal person, I just try and follow what I see as common sense as normally the law does follow whats fair and/or common sense.


    Shyboy,I will private message to if that is ok,she may be reading this right now,nothing would surprise me anymore.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you want my advice, get a solicitor and get one pronto. Don't accept legal advice from anyone on this website about such a complicated and legally fraught matter.

    In general I believe that the evidence should be inadmissible, but it can be admitted in certain circumstances. She is likely to state that you gave her permission to access the emails and you will need to ask the court to rule the evidence as inadmissible. You will very probably need legal representation because the procedure rules are a minefield.

    Are you definitely over the legal aid limit? If you are, you must be earning a fairly decent wage, in which case you can afford to pay for a solicitor, at least at first. You can have nearly £700 a month spare cash before the legal aid limit is reached.

    Put it this way, I work as a professional legal adviser in another field (community care and benefits for those who care) and I'm advising you that relying on message boards is as misguided as not changing your password when the relationship failed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea Kermit I basically said to get in touch with a legal advisor too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stolen email can absolutely not be used as evidence. And you can counter-sue her for invasion of privacy etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Great, but how do you prove that it was stolen Tinkler?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Great, but how do you prove that it was stolen Tinkler?

    What I think is a better point is how do you prove it's legitimate / not doctored? I'm not in the legal profession but I can see how easily it would be to make fraudulent evidence if print offs of emails were ok to use.

    If that were the case, I may start several proceedings right now sueing lots of people for money which they 'promised' to give me in various emails.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    What I think is a better point is how do you prove it's legitimate / not doctored?
    Tinkler was specifically mentioning stolen evidence mate :)
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