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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I think someone in Scotland has taken PC and twisted it. Green MSP Patrick Harvie is trying to get a Bill passed which lumps prejudice against disabled and homosexual people together in the same piece of legislation. When that kind of thing happens I think "what is the world coming to? Not that I don't think prejudice against homosexuals is bloody awful but why should it be in the same category as prejudice against disabled people?

    As for the smoking ban, although I will not break the law I still think of it as my right to smoke inside my local public house, and the do-gooders who don't like it should sit outside or go to a nice little air wick scented cafe in a leisure centre. Sorry if this gets anyones' goat but smoking and pubs go together like bubble and squeak to me. They have done for centuries.

    Before the smoking ban when we had smoking pubs, pubs with smoking and non-smoking areas, and non-smoking pubs, there was plenty of choice for everyone. The pubs had it right. It's just the MPs were bored and needed to look like they were doing something for the money, like they're doing now with their waste of time plastic bag talks (the supermarkets are doing enough to help thank you).

    And now nearly every week in our local papers we hear of another great pub shutting because the smoking ban has all but ripped the heart out of our pubs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Yes and groups of people need support groups for their 'categories' and to cater for their lifestyles. :rolleyes:

    There's a difference between recognising difference and stigmatising difference.

    I do not understand what this "fuss" is supposed to be any way. Please elaborate?

    You're right, I perhaps phrased it a bit harshly.

    I guess what I am driving at is much of the focus on sexuality or race seems to emphasise the difference, not that we are all basically the same.

    The 'fuss' I was refering to is people defining themselves almost purely by their race or sexual preference, a practice I've always found deeply strange.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    You're right, I perhaps phrased it a bit harshly.

    I guess what I am driving at is much of the focus on sexuality or race seems to emphasise the difference, not that we are all basically the same.

    The 'fuss' I was refering to is people defining themselves almost purely by their race or sexual preference, a practice I've always found deeply strange.
    Do straight people not define themselves by their sexual preference? Do some Brits not have a degree of national pride, or indulge in what it is to be white or British?

    I think the difference is that it shows more if somebody from a minority group sticks by the (sub)culture that they feel most comfortable in, if the culture and/or subculture is the norm.

    If that makes sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Do straight people not define themselves by their sexual preference? Do some Brits not have a degree of national pride, or indulge in what it is to be white or British?

    I think the difference is that it shows more if somebody from a minority group sticks by the (sub)culture that they feel most comfortable in, if the culture and/or subculture is the norm.

    If that makes sense.

    That is very valid. I suppose what I am trying to get at is my desire for there not have to be support groups for this or that 'minority'.

    Race is an almost entirely man made construct and sexuality really makes next to no difference to who you are - why do they continue to be such big issues?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    That is very valid. I suppose what I am trying to get at is my desire for there not have to be support groups for this or that 'minority'.
    No, there shouldn't have to be the need for support groups, but there is.

    Homophobia and racism runs deeper than hate crime though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Why is it demeaning?

    I think people are 'lumped together' as LGBT because they are classed as a sexual minority, although being trans can be several things and it usually refers to gender identity, not sexuality. There is a debate as to whether i should be LGBT or just LGB... Perhaps putting trans folk under the LGB gives them protection?

    In my view, I don't see is as demeaning as it is nice to be able to go to clubs and meetings and meet people who are of the same sexual orientation or gender identity as myself. I also feel that homophobia also affects bisexual and trans people and so having an 'LGBT community' offers support and protection. If it weren't for the LGBT society, I wouldn't have a group to go to for help and to be fair, my heterosexual friends have no idea how I experience the world or what homophobia feels like...

    As for BEMs (or 'People of Colour') I don't personally know and would feel wrong speaking for a group of people to which I don't belong.

    Would be interesting to hear from somebody who is experiencing it what they think.

    ETA: I don't claim to speak for all LGBT people, it's just my experience

    As thesite's BEM/POC rep :wave: (btw people this side of the pond don't generally go in for the POC thang!!!) I'd say that the lumping together can make things more complicated. Obviously we have some shared concerns but even more differing ones ie language, religion, culture etc

    eg I have little in common with Somalians apart from skin tone, in fact I have more in common culturally in some aspects with White Britons. The trouble is grouping everyone together under race classifications means that issues get ignored or misunderstood.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote: »
    As thesite's BEM/POC rep :wave: (btw people this side of the pond don't generally go in for the POC thang!!!) I'd say that the lumping together can make things more complicated. Obviously we have some shared concerns but even more differing ones ie language, religion, culture etc

    eg I have little in common with Somalians apart from skin tone, in fact I have more in common culturally in some aspects with White Britons. The trouble is grouping everyone together under race classifications means that issues get ignored or misunderstood.

    Maybe it is different for POC/BEM then (hence I only talk for 'groups' in which I belong). What issues would you say are ignored or misunderstood?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God, I hate all this labelling of people. LGBT, POC, BEM... we're all human beings, so why attempt to divide us all up into endless categories?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Maybe it is different for POC/BEM then (hence I only talk for 'groups' in which I belong). What issues would you say are ignored or misunderstood?

    One example would be the issues associated with being a refugee/asylum-seeker. I have heard strong anecdotal evidence of problems with children associated with the circumstances that lead to them coming to this country ie psychological trauma/PTSD from witnessing war, rape, genocide etc

    This isn't an issue generally associated with people from West Indian backgrounds who traditionally make up the majority of the Black population. I think its something that seriously needs to be looked into considering this kind of trauma can manifest itself in behavioural problems that might be misidentified as criminal rather than a cry for help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote: »
    This isn't an issue generally associated with people from West Indian backgrounds who traditionally make up the majority of the Black population. I think its something that seriously needs to be looked into considering this kind of trauma can manifest itself in behavioural problems that might be misidentified as criminal rather than a cry for help.

    This is very true. I used to work for a big college and we had lots of kids from Somalia among other trouble spots and they really struggled to sit and learn. They were disruptive and occasionally violent, which given their recent past wasnt altogether surprising.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote: »
    One example would be the issues associated with being a refugee/asylum-seeker. I have heard strong anecdotal evidence of problems with children associated with the circumstances that lead to them coming to this country ie psychological trauma/PTSD from witnessing war, rape, genocide etc

    This isn't an issue generally associated with people from West Indian backgrounds who traditionally make up the majority of the Black population. I think its something that seriously needs to be looked into considering this kind of trauma can manifest itself in behavioural problems that might be misidentified as criminal rather than a cry for help.

    But how does having BME support groups harm this issue?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    But how does having BME support groups harm this issue?

    I'm specifically talking about the 'lumping together' of culturally different groups based on skin colour. Sometimes it just doesn't work as perceived members of the group have vastly different support needs to other members. Harm can be caused when those needs are unintentionally ignored because of a lack of awareness of the differing issues.
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