If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
Racism in pubs / GBH charges
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Friday night, had a stag party with my mates. Me and brown Sri Lankan mate go to the bogs. When mate is washing his hands some other bloke goes to his friend "What's that bad smell? It smells like an immigrant", his friend says "Yeah stinks like an immigrant doesn't it?" at which my mate instantly turns around and punches him in the nose, gives him a bloody nose with his sharp silver ring. Next thing both guys onto him, he's on the floor they're punching him, so of course naturally I join in trying to defend him, belt one in the leg so he falls down, start hitting the other guy into the mirror, mirror smashes, at which point bouncers/security types come in.
Me and my mate spent Friday night in a cell. There were no other witnesses and the other two guys said that we assaulted them completely unprovoked. Been released this evening on bail, Police say that we're charged with GBH and have a court date set.
What's the situation here from legal perspective? The two guys started it, racial abuse, my friend acted in a natural way as anyone would have, I came to try and defend him. We're both Oxbridge-educated young professionals with zero criminal record, surely we'll be safe? Why do we have the hassle of going through the courts?
And also is this sort of racism in pubs natural, have others witnessed those sort of snide remarks? I'm really angry for my mate just because he's not an "immigrant", he was born here, well dressed and integrated well into society so doesn't deserve that tag.
Rick
Me and my mate spent Friday night in a cell. There were no other witnesses and the other two guys said that we assaulted them completely unprovoked. Been released this evening on bail, Police say that we're charged with GBH and have a court date set.
What's the situation here from legal perspective? The two guys started it, racial abuse, my friend acted in a natural way as anyone would have, I came to try and defend him. We're both Oxbridge-educated young professionals with zero criminal record, surely we'll be safe? Why do we have the hassle of going through the courts?
And also is this sort of racism in pubs natural, have others witnessed those sort of snide remarks? I'm really angry for my mate just because he's not an "immigrant", he was born here, well dressed and integrated well into society so doesn't deserve that tag.
Rick
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
i wouldn't count on it mate but ya never know ..
bit of a shitty scenario tho, id be well pissed
the two other fellas are scummy cunts for starting a fight then going lying to the police about it :no:
Nothing cures racism better than putting the boots to a couple of assholes.
Shame people can't be taught commonsense
What did your friend think would happen after he threw a punch ..?
He should have just ignored them or laughed it off .. whatever stereotypes those guys had about other races will only have been worsened now for the next person of a different race that comes along.
And your friend has only gotten himself and you into trouble. He could have walked away knowing he's most likely better educated, and has better prospects then those guys.
Racists are everywhere, and their tongues strike whenever you least expect it. Very rarely do they actually throw punches along with their words, unless of course people react to those words with violence.
There's far too many racists out there to punch your way through all of them without suffering consequences yourself. There were other ways to deal with the situation but your friend chose the worst option of all.
Sounds like you better get yourself a good Barrister
But apart from that, I actually agree with DG. To be charged with GBH you must have really laid into these blokes. Whether they deserved or not is entirely separate from your situation. Racism is abhorrent but you cannot possibly deal wih it by flooring every racist you meet.
As for your status as an Oxbridge professional, are you suggesting that there should be two tiers of justice? One for the likes of yourselves and another for the plebs? If it had been another crime you were accused of, such as rape or murder, should your background be taken into account?
By the way, this should be in Home, Law and Money.
Wouldn't most people just ignore it and walk away? Or would that just be me?
Isn't it generally? Or am I thinking of stuff like previous offences?
Having no criminal record will work in your favour; but don't expect to get off on the fact that you're both well educated people.
I agree. So fuck if you went to Oxford, there's probably quite a few murderers out there that had fantastic educational backgrounds but the judge isn't going to say not guilty this guy went to Oxford he must be a good guy really.
Those guys are in the wrong for saying such things to your mate but it was totally unreasonable for you to cause GBH and whether there were racist comments there is no way to prove that and it is still an unreasonable way to react.
You could find out if they have CCTV in the mens toilet though, that could help your defence a little if they do.
I was assuming he got one of those free when he was arrested? or at least asked to have his come then?
just came across this link though makes an interesting read
http://criminalsolicitor.blogspot.com/
What the 2 blokes said was completely out of order. But, that unfortunately doesn't give your friend the right to start fighting, and it certainly doesn't give you the right to jump in because your friend has bitten off more than he can chew.
You're certainly going to need a solicitor to help you out, you can try and argue self-defence but because your friend threw the first punch, I can't see it going anywhere tbh.
As for the "hassle" of going to court, going through court is a "hassle" if you're challenging a parking fine or a ticket for littering. Being charged with grievous bodily harm is a whole different kettle of fish, and you were lucky to not be remanded.
But at the end of the day, the racist comment wasn't witnessed by anyone else. How would you prove that Mr Twat said "you stupid moon dwelling monkey"? You couldn't without witnesses, and all people are going to concentrate on will be that you hit the guy first.
Suppose you and me are alone in the room, and for whatever reasons, we don't like each other.
1)If I shout verbal abuse to you, and you shout back, I'm the asshole.
2)If you punch me and I punch you back, you're the asshole.
3)If I shout at you and you punch me, we're both assholes.
1. As far as I'm concerned, my mate didn't start the fight, they did. They started it with racial abuse. The punch was thrown as a natural response to abusive comments.
2. You guys saying he should have just ignored it / laughed it off? Easier said than done. Maybe different people are different but there's absolutely no fucking way if I was in his shoes I'd have just stood there letting that one ride. Completely natural, normal, human reaction to fucking lamp someone if they say that shit.
Fucking ridiculous laws.
GBH is a serious charge and you should be looking at getting a solicitor of you haven't already as you could well be looking at doing time in prison for it.
If everyone floored a person every time they got offended this would happen all day everyday. You just have to learn to accept that there are twats that will try and upset you, but you have to learn to take the higher ground and roll your eyes at how immature it is. It's hard, I get it all the time so you either come up with a witty comeback or just walk away. You can't prove they were racist, but they can prove you did GBH.
yes, it is.
Aw, well, if that's how the world works as far as you are concerned, what's the problem?
that's the consensus, yes.
Reality? How is throwing your fists around like a kid any better? Yeah being called for no reason is very annoying, but there is no excuse for violence, it's immature and just isn't worth the hassle.
Yes. Isn't it? I can't imagine how it could have been avoided. Oh, no, wait, I can. If you hadn't both tried to take the law into your own hands.
Natural response? Natural to your mate, maybe, but not to a lot of other people, I expect. Personaly "punch someone in face" and "smash person's head in mirror" are not in my list of natural responses to a lot of things.
Wow. I really hope that you get a sympathetic jury if this goes to trial, because you'll need one if your defence is going to be that what you did is natural and normal.
There are a lot of fucking ridiculous laws in this country, but the laws that say you can't smash someone in the face for speaking out of turn are not amongst them.
Personally I hope they throw the book at you and your mate. Your complete unwillingness to accept that you've done anything wrong is astounding.
And this is why I hate pubs. Full of ignorant, stupid people looking for trouble.
Erm, no you didn't. Rational = well thought out and sensible.
Close friend from uni's dad is a partner at Clifford Chance... we'll be fine.
What, because you couldn't take the moral high ground and decided to be fucking arseholes?
I hope you get put away ffs.
:no:
I'd also have to agree with Ballerina, I wouldn't assume for a second that things will be okay - if the situation is what you describe then we're likely to be reading about this in the papers, and it'll take a lot for you to avoid some kind of serious punishment.
I'm unsure what advice you were looking for Ricardo but I think most people have covered it.
Make sure you get a good lawyer
You are being charged with a massively serious crime, don't assume anything is going to be okay with your job or your freedom
You might want to consider how you react in pubs in future from now on
Closed.
eek - edited to say - that was just a slip of my typing - Ricardo and Jomery aren't the same person