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Faith Schools again

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fear of God works wonders. :p

    You mean the fear of man? Although, that will only work if your a muslim woman.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I'll give you a small example. And I know that this particular question isn't just an example of a school's influence but I think it illustrates a point about how religious influence works when it supresses the desire to question thing that might seem trivial. Of the people who went to a Christian school of some sort, who thinks that Jesus was bascially a good man? Hell I did. It's common knowledge that he is. And when I was asked the same question about Muhammed, I realised that I thought about it far more critically and actually considered things like evidence, and the arguments of people who didn't think he was good, that I'd never even bothered to ask about Jesus, because after all with Jesus it was a given. And of course those brought up in the Muslim faith will most likely act the same way but opposite.

    You never questioned Christian teaching in school?

    It's pretty much all I did when I was there, the teachers didn't seem to mind either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    You never questioned Christian teaching in school?

    It's pretty much all I did when I was there, the teachers didn't seem to mind either.

    It's not a question of whether I did or not, it's a question of whether I was encouraged to, which is what school's supposed to be about. And the answer to that is a resounding no.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not a question of whether I did or not, it's a question of whether I was encouraged to, which is what school's supposed to be about. And the answer to that is a resounding no.

    Why would you be though at a faith school? It would be different if you did question it and they just put their fingers in their ear and started singing, which doesn't happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Why would you be though at a faith school?

    Which is exactly the point. Children go to school to learn about things and question things around them. Faith schools fundamentally fly in the face of this in regards to a select few ideas. That's why they certainly shouldn't be funded by the government. And considering the fact that churches are free (ish), there is no way you can accuse anyone of denying the parent's right to teach their children their religion. Hell, America has no publicly funded faith schools, and yet practicing religion is far more widespread in America than Britain.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Why would you be though at a faith school? It would be different if you did question it and they just put their fingers in their ear and started singing, which doesn't happen.

    What is your argument? It's been expounded repeatedly the case against faith schools. Presumably you're fine with kids being indoctrinated at school?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is your argument? It's been expounded repeatedly the case against faith schools. Presumably you're fine with kids being indoctrinated at school?

    "Indoctrinated?" I don't get this when people talk about Faith Schools. Religion attendance is declining and has been for decades in the UK yet Faith Schools are in the ascendancy. Surely that would mean a buck in the trend of Church attendance? Yet it doesn't, why is this? Because people think teenagers are blank canvasses to be moulded by the evil religious people and their minds will be corrupted forever. It's not like that, we're getting smarter and smarter as the generations go on, we're more skeptical and look for science for answers. I can't think of any of my former school friends who go to Church every week or believe in any of the dogma that they got "brainwashed" by. It's ridiculous, just talk to anyone who went to a Faith School and they'll say it had little or no influence on their lives. Faith Schools are more popular now because they attract the best teachers and have better reputations. Got fuck all to do with religion. Now I'm saying this in relatin to Christian Faith Schools, don't know much about others.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Faith Schools are more popular now because they attract the best teachers and have better reputations.

    Because as I've demonstrated, they can use unfair selection methods to choose the best pupils (and the best teachers generally like to teach in a good school if they have the choice). Unless you can demonstrate a link between religious schools and better grades beyond student selection, then better grades isn't an argument for them (incidentally, the other specialist schools that aren't based on religion, but have similar ability to select students see similar patterns of student attainment).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because as I've demonstrated, they can use unfair selection methods to choose the best pupils (and the best teachers generally like to teach in a good school if they have the choice). Unless you can demonstrate a link between religious schools and better grades beyond student selection, then better grades isn't an argument for them (incidentally, the other specialist schools that aren't based on religion, but have similar ability to select students see similar patterns of student attainment).

    :confused:

    Did I say there was a link between religion and better grades?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    "Indoctrinated?" I don't get this when people talk about Faith Schools. Religion attendance is declining and has been for decades in the UK yet Faith Schools are in the ascendancy. Surely that would mean a buck in the trend of Church attendance? Yet it doesn't, why is this? Because people think teenagers are blank canvasses to be moulded by the evil religious people and their minds will be corrupted forever. It's not like that, we're getting smarter and smarter as the generations go on, we're more skeptical and look for science for answers. I can't think of any of my former school friends who go to Church every week or believe in any of the dogma that they got "brainwashed" by. It's ridiculous, just talk to anyone who went to a Faith School and they'll say it had little or no influence on their lives. Faith Schools are more popular now because they attract the best teachers and have better reputations. Got fuck all to do with religion. Now I'm saying this in relatin to Christian Faith Schools, don't know much about others.

    Kids are indoctrinated into a faith at faith schools. How much they're indoctrinated depends on the school and the faith.

    It sounds like your argument, in summary, is: Kids in Christian schools don't buy the unsubstantiated nonsense purported by the school on the matter of religion, so it's OK. My opinion is that teaching the abandonment of critical thinking and exulting the virtues of faith is potentially dangerous, morally dubious, and shouldn't be done at the tax-payer's expense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It sounds like your argument, in summary, is: Kids in Christian schools don't buy the unsubstantiated nonsense purported by the school on the matter of religion, so it's OK. My opinion is that teaching the abandonment of critical thinking and exulting the virtues of faith is potentially dangerous, morally dubious, and shouldn't be done at the tax-payer's expense.

    But they do teach critical thinking. They have to abide by the National Cirriculum, that includes teaching about the Theory of Evolution and Natural Selection, which was studied extensively when I went to school. Faith is secondary in Faith Schools, it's all a big facade to make the schools look more popular and appealing to parents so they can get the best kids to attend.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    it's all a big facade to make the schools look more popular and appealing to parents so they can get the best kids to attend.
    So on that basis, what possible justification do you have for them? 10% of the schools costs in return for the ability to effectively pick and choose your students? It doesn't result in better overall education for the population, because those normal schools near to selective schools tend to have lower than average overall grades (in other words, the faith schools pick the best pupils, and then get the best funding because for some reason, the reward for poor grades is/was (?) reduced funding). And as for religious education, there is no national curriculum, it's decided by the LEA and the schools together.
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