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'Rape' victim so fat she should be glad of the attention

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    So you agree with me that the person's weight isn't relevant to their self-esteem, rather the satisfaction level with their weight/shape.

    what i am saying is, according to the scientific literature, weight and body image are central elements in self-esteem (e.g.) and that this is perhaps the kind of evidence the lawyer is using to justify her statements.

    IMO to discuss whether it is actual weight, perceived weight or satisfaction with their weight/shape that affects self esteem is for another thread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This has nothing to do with what I said. Just because someone is a suspect doesn't mean they're guilty and I never implied this. But when a lawyer believes that his/her client is guilty, then this specific lawyer would be just as guilty of the client's crime if they defended the suspect.
    Pay better attention to what I say next time...

    I think the problem is that what you seem to be implying is that a lawyers personal judgement should affect how well they defend someone. That's what caused problems, for example, in areas with huge racial divisions - for example in the deep South during the worst days a state defender would probably assume that a black man accused of a crime against a white man was guilty because of their own predujice (let alone the obvious example of a Nazi oppointed lawyer for Jewish defendants in the late 30s). By then requiring them not to defend the person don't you just end up with a legal system that perpetuates stereotypes and never provides proper legal support for people already demonised by the media and society?

    If a client confesses then the law requires the lawyer to put in a guilty plea or remove themselves from the case - but if it's just what a lawyer (who may be on low pay and have little time to look into case) thinks about the defendant based on their own predujice that's fundamentally undermining the basis of the legal system.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Jim V wrote: »
    I think the problem is that what you seem to be implying is that a lawyers personal judgement should affect how well they defend someone. That's what caused problems, for example, in areas with huge racial divisions - for example in the deep South during the worst days a state defender would probably assume that a black man accused of a crime against a white man was guilty because of their own predujice (let alone the obvious example of a Nazi oppointed lawyer for Jewish defendants in the late 30s). By then requiring them not to defend the person don't you just end up with a legal system that perpetuates stereotypes and never provides proper legal support for people already demonised by the media and society?

    If a client confesses then the law requires the lawyer to put in a guilty plea or remove themselves from the case - but if it's just what a lawyer (who may be on low pay and have little time to look into case) thinks about the defendant based on their own predujice that's fundamentally undermining the basis of the legal system.
    This was special though, or are you saying that for some suspects every lawyer avaialble will be prejudiced against them? I think even if one will be, another will not.
    But for "suspects" that the lawyer knows are guilty (possibly because the "suspect" told them), defending them is not any different than hiding a wanted criminal in your house to help them escape being caught. You are aiding somebody who's guilty to escape detainment and/or punishment.
    Think of divorce attorneys who try to help the person who cheated escape having to give anything to the other one, when it was agreed that if one cheated they would. Think of the lawyer defending a mafia lord for the extra money.
    EDIT: By "extra money" I don't mean being given more than they fee, I mean more than if they didn't defend them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think your far too quick to throw away the proper protection of the law based on imagining possible people getting off, rather than innocent people being found guilty because of a bad system.

    Based on what your saying it seems clear you'd rather risk an innocent person being found guilty, rather than a guilty person being found innocent.

    I'm personally glad our legal system works to protect the innocent first, then finds ways to convict the guilty.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Jim V wrote: »
    Based on what your saying it seems clear you'd rather risk an innocent person being found guilty, rather than a guilty person being found innocent.
    Not at all, I'm exactly the opposite. What I said (once more) is that even if one lawyer is sure their client is guilty, there should always be another who won't be. I'm not talking about making new laws or changing existing ones to say that "lawyers who believe their clients are guilty shouldn't defend them", I'm talking about the ethics of specific lawyers.
    Clearer now?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What I said (once more) is that even if one lawyer is sure their client is guilty, there should always be another who won't be.

    Rose tints there though. Shurely the calibre of the lawyer is relevant too, which was part of the problem in the south US at one time. If you struggle to find a lawyer then your right to justice/fair trial is diminished. That's partly why legal aid exists...
    I'm talking about the ethics of specific lawyers.

    Lawyer are just our advocates in the lagel system, we pay them to present our case before the judge and jury - and for their advice on how to get through the legal system.

    Remember, it's not the lawyer who decides the verdict it's the jury.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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