Head over to this thread to submit a song for our February 'Love' playlist that we'll be putting on Spotify!

And this is what you get when abortion is illegal

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
«1

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    70,000 women die each year from unsafe abortion (tip of the iceburg of the 19 million women who seek one). That is shameful.

    I hope Ms D gets to the UK in time, anenchephaly is a very sad situation for all concerned.

    In other comforting news, One fifth of GPs think there should be an outright ban on abortion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    In other comforting news, One fifth of GPs think there should be an outright ban on abortion.

    That's fucking disgraceful. I have no problems with someone who says that they personally would never be able to have an abortion, or carry out an abortion in the case of a doctor, but anyone who thinks that they should have the right to prevent anyone else from having that same choice is utter scum imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I don't think the poll was representitive, but still, I'm sadly not surprised.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tbh, I think the large number of imported doctors, especially from muslim countries like India, would probably have an effect on the figures. According to the Guardian article, only 3% of the general population oppose the availability of abortion to women outright.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah. I think it depends on the country though. I've found that doctors who come from countries where abortion is illegal, and have seen the damage it can cause, are pro-choice. One of our surgeon's experiences seeing a 16 year old die in Ghana made him choose to specialise in abortion care.

    I'm glad there's a pro-choice majority in this country though. But I do think an enemy in the movement is complacency over the fact that it is safe and legal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    from muslim countries like India



    Most Indians are Sikh or Hindu...

    anyway, 1/5th of doctors are against abortion, meaning 4/5ths are for abortion, probably representative of the population as a whole i'd have thought.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Most Indians are Sikh or Hindu...

    Oops. Anyway you know what I mean. Countries where generally views on such issues are more conservative than here. Countries that are willing to arrest Ricahrd Gere for kissing someone on TV. Obviously I'm generalising, but I can't help but think that a greater proportion of doctors from such countries would be likely to be against abortion compared to people raised in the UK.

    On your other point though, I don't think anywhere close to 1 in 5 people support an outright ban on abortion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The thing is, and I'm going to get flamed for this but anyway;

    those who are really anti-abortion (and think it should be banned) tend to be more emotional / religious and less informed about the consequences of banning abortions, as apposed to the more educated / liberal citizens who kind of detatch the emotional 'murder' tags and see the situation for what it is.

    Doctors I would have hoped would have been in the more intelligent group.

    So far I've never seen a good anti abortion campaign, just nasty pictures with the word 'MURDER' or something to stir people up.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    The thing is, and I'm going to get flamed for this but anyway;

    those who are really anti-abortion (and think it should be banned) tend to be more emotional / religious and less informed about the consequences of banning abortions, as apposed to the more educated / liberal citizens who kind of detatch the emotional 'murder' tags and see the situation for what it is.

    Doctors I would have hoped would have been in the more intelligent group.

    So far I've never seen a good anti abortion campaign, just nasty pictures with the word 'MURDER' or something to stir people up.
    I resent the implication that people either think that abortion is 100% OK or fall into the "It's murder, always wrong kill the murderers" category. There are people who are neither.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I resent the implication that people either think that abortion is 100% OK or fall into the "It's murder, always wrong kill the murderers" category. There are people who are neither.

    Note my use of the word 'tend'. Although I can see where you're coming from, it wasn't my intention to say everyone was either or.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While I agree with the religious part, I think a lot of antis know full well what the consequences of illegal abortion are, but they don't think that a woman damaging herself or dying is justification for an abortion. I remember debating with a woman and called her up on illegal abortion - funnily enough she never responded.

    A few have though (when they stop denying that there was no such thing as illegal abortion), and some of it comes down to full blown misogyny and lack of empathy for the woman. Take a look at this little gem for instance. Point of information: the title of that post comes from a guy who set up the 'feminists' for life group, oh yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    While I agree with the religious part, I think a lot of antis know full well what the consequences of illegal abortion are, but they don't think that a woman damaging herself or dying is justification for an abortion. I remember debating with a woman and called her up on illegal abortion - funnily enough she never responded.

    A few have though (when they stop denying that there was no such thing as illegal abortion), and some of it comes down to full blown misogyny and lack of empathy for the woman. Take a look at this little gem for instance. Point of information: the title of that post comes from a guy who set up the 'feminists' for life group, oh yes.

    jesus christ
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    The thing is, and I'm going to get flamed for this but anyway;

    those who are really anti-abortion (and think it should be banned) tend to be more emotional / religious and less informed about the consequences of banning abortions, as apposed to the more educated / liberal citizens who kind of detatch the emotional 'murder' tags and see the situation for what it is.

    Doctors I would have hoped would have been in the more intelligent group.

    So far I've never seen a good anti abortion campaign, just nasty pictures with the word 'MURDER' or something to stir people up.

    I don't think it's a case of lacking intelligence, simply denying logical arguments because they clash with their religious beliefs.

    What I think is the bigger problem though, is people (with especially strong beliefs) wish to impose them on everyone else. The majority of sensible people don't do this. Someone might not like violence in films, but only a few nutjobs will try and get it banned. Someone might think that eating animals is wrong, but only a few nutjobs would support denying other people the freedom to make the same choice. And abortion is the same, with plenty of women saying that if they got pregnant, they couldn't abort for personal moral reasons, but would still support another womans right to choose.

    Unfortunately, when the few nutjobs get any sort of power (e.g. the church, the religious right in America), they attempt to impose their religious and moral beliefs on everyone else, rather than detatching them from the issue and looking at it logically, and considering other people's freedom to live according to their religious beliefs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In America, I can't remember the details, but the equivilent of the secretary of health or whatever is a catholic priest or something. Appointed by Mr. Bush.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    In America, I can't remember the details, but the equivilent of the secretary of health or whatever is a catholic priest or something. Appointed by Mr. Bush.

    Do you mean Dr David Hager, he was appointed to the FDAs Advisory Committee on Reproductive Health Drugs in 2003. I don't know if he still holds a place there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No idea, my memory is sketchy at best :D.

    I just know a very christian very fundamentalist guy got a job high up dealing with medicine in America.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    that poor girl
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saw this on Five News earlier. What a disgrace. So the poor girl has to go theough pregnancy & giving birth when all her child will have is a few days to live?

    TBH, I see nothing wrong with her having the abortion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seeing as the abortion would be safer than giving birth, and the child has no chance to live, unless you nelieve in miracles and fairy dust, then I can't understand why someone would object to her abortion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That poor girl should be allowed an abortion. In fact in my opinion ANYONE who wants an abortion should be allowed one, there are enough unwanted/orphaned/mis-treated children in this world as it is. If a baby is going to be seriously ill (such as in the case of this baby) then I would have no problems with an abortion taking place.

    They said the mother "isn't suicidal" so doesn't "qualify" for an abortion :mad: The way they are treating her, and the stress of having to carry a baby for 9 months only for it to die, might not cause her to be suicidal now, but what happens when the baby is born and then dies. No parent should have to bury a child in any situation! A child dying before his/her parent can destroy the parents lives forever and could end up in the mother of this baby being suicidal. Plus is it really right for them to allow this baby to grow and be born? Surely allowing it to die after birth would be more cruel than terminating it's life while still in the womb?
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    They said the mother "isn't suicidal" so doesn't "qualify" for an abortion :mad: The way they are treating her, and the stress of having to carry a baby for 9 months only for it to die, might not cause her to be suicidal now, but what happens when the baby is born and then dies. No parent should have to bury a child in any situation! A child dying before his/her parent can destroy the parents lives forever and could end up in the mother of this baby being suicidal. Plus is it really right for them to allow this baby to grow and be born? Surely allowing it to die after birth would be more cruel than terminating it's life while still in the womb?
    Exactly. They're idiots.
    But, with what legal reason can they refuse to let her leave the country? As far as I know if you're not wanted for a crime you can go any time you wish.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why didnt she just say she was suicidal tbh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly. They're idiots.
    But, with what legal reason can they refuse to let her leave the country? As far as I know if you're not wanted for a crime you can go any time you wish.

    She's technically in the care of the state, and as she's under 18, she requires permission from a guardian to travel abroad. Apparently.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    She's technically in the care of the state, and as she's under 18, she requires permission from a guardian to travel abroad. Apparently.
    Does that mean she's an orphan?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does that mean she's an orphan?

    I dunno. Summat like that, yeah. Or her parents were unfit or something. Nice to see she's now in the custody of someone who cares about her best interests eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They should send over an abortion boat or something.

    Although I wouldn't agree with the argument that all people should be given an abortion if they want one... at a late stage (24 weeks ish) the baby could theoretically survive if it was born (i think), so unless there is some major reason i.e. it could kill the mother, then they should go through will the pregnancy.

    And also, although there are a lot of kids waiting for adoption, most of them are young kids in care who had a difficult upbringing, rather than newly born babies. And as harsh as it sounds, a lot of people adopting would prefer a newly born as they might not like the baggage that comes with a young child who has been abused and may have behavioural difficulties for the rest of their life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Although I wouldn't agree with the argument that all people should be given an abortion if they want one... at a late stage (24 weeks ish) the baby could theoretically survive if it was born (i think), so unless there is some major reason i.e. it could kill the mother, then they should go through will the pregnancy.

    People don't have late term abortions for the sheer hell of it, there's often a damn good reason for it. The anti side seems to have created this picture of a woman finding out she's pregnant, then waiting and waiting and waiting, then one day calling up the abortion clinic and gleefully skipping down the road to get one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    They should send over an abortion boat or something.
    They do. Some Danish company used to do it. Dock in Ireland, pick up a load of women up the duff, and ship them out to international waters, and lop that baby out of there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Although I wouldn't agree with the argument that all people should be given an abortion if they want one... at a late stage (24 weeks ish) the baby could theoretically survive if it was born (i think), so unless there is some major reason i.e. it could kill the mother, then they should go through will the pregnancy.
    Why should they?
    And also, although there are a lot of kids waiting for adoption, most of them are young kids in care who had a difficult upbringing, rather than newly born babies. And as harsh as it sounds, a lot of people adopting would prefer a newly born as they might not like the baggage that comes with a young child who has been abused and may have behavioural difficulties for the rest of their life.
    I would think that a lot of those young kids with baggage could probably get over it though if they're put in the right environment. Let's not look on these people who put their babies up for adoption as some kind of friendly baby grower for future adoptive parents. There's no guarantee that a newborn baby will be adopted, and adopted to a good family. Surely it's kinder to have it aborted than subjected to a rough life; than for it to be just another unwanted child.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Loopi wrote: »
    Surely it's kinder to have it aborted than subjected to a rough life; than for it to be just another unwanted child.
    I disagree here. Not that I've gone to ask any of the people who were unwanted children, but I doubt most of them would prefer to have never been born if you asked them.
Sign In or Register to comment.