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What do you think of E?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by WHaTdaHell_ami_d0ingherelol:
    <STRONG>If all heavy users where to get brain scans it would show brain damage to the brain!! HOLES

    Your level gets lower and lower, so you would only be able to get a high or be happy when on the drug and fall into clinical depression.

    and the biggest fact of all is it can do about anything to you! </STRONG>

    Holes????? damage to neurotransmitters, maybe, but holes?????????????

    People who use e won't be able to get happy ? the word bollocks springs to mind on that one

    E can do ANYTHING to you ? well now theres a fact, the biggest indeed ! of course it can, that is without doubt the most ridicilous statment i have ever read in the e argument.

    Who do you think funds these studies ? the government and alcohol firms in fact (emmmmmmmmmmmm how convinent) And despite this the best they can ever manage is 'well erm, we think maybe this might happen' well thats far from convincing. Perhaps some of what they guess at will prove to be true, but in the main what they have predicted so far has been disproved. I see where you are coming from, but you must be careful what you take as gospel. Every weekend 1.5 million pills are dropped, have you ever wondered why ? its very easy to be anti-pill when you haven't tried one, thats because you only know one side of the argument, the only positive argument for e is the effects of it, so when you think about it your opinion is unbalanced.

    Everyday we risk the state of our brains, mobile phones, alcohol, un organic foods to name a few, e is just another small risk, and for people who practice any of the above to question us is hypo-critical.

    You clearly do not want to take e is fine, but be very careful blabbing unfounded facts on a subject you are not familiar with, it is policies like this which have given e a bad name and hence attempts to usher it from society, this in turn ensures a lack of advice and eductaion on the safe usage of e and thus people like leah betts sadly lost her life. If she had been educated on how much water to take in, she would be with us today.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by WHaTdaHell_ami_d0ingherelol:
    <STRONG>excuse me but i do have my facts straight!
    <rest of uninformed ignorant rubbish snipped></STRONG>


    First - holes? No. There is some evidence that MDMA is neurotoxic and downgrades serotonin receptors, but this is not the same thing as holes.

    Backflow - total bollox I'm afraid. It is true that MDMA can increase production of a hormone which makes you more likely to retain fluid, and coupled with bad advice of drinking water to counteract the effects of E (which is not true - you only need to drink lots of fluid if having it large for hours on a hot & sweaty dancefloor), can lead to dilutional hyponatremia which is where your fluid balance in your cells gets upset leading to osmotic pressure and swelling of the brain stem, which can kill (in fact this is what happened to Leah Betts).
    But your idea of backflow is total rubbish.

    I have been taking E fairly regularly for over 11 years now, and while I am maybe not as sharp as I used to be (but whether thats E, age, alcohol use, tobbacco use, pesticides in food, car fumes or what is impossible to say), I am currently in my 3rd year of a degree and on course for a 2:1
    I also have a fairly succesful freelance job as a graphic designer/web designer and multimedia trainer.


    "I am not aware of anyone who has died as a result of an acute allergic reaction to ecstasy. Her low plasma sodium level makes her death much more explicable. She drank a lot of water but with a lack of understanding of why she needed to drink water. Water is not an antidote to ecstasy, it is an antidote to dancing."
    Dr John Henry, director of the National Poisons Unit at Guy’s Hospital talking about Leah Betts
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh yeah
    They do know it screws with your pineal gland that controls seratonin levels and moods.
    The pineal gland does not control serotonin and mood. Afaik, it controls melatonin and sleep cycles (but I'm not a neuroscientist so I'm willing to be corrected on this).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hello! I took my first E a few weeks ago, after discussing it with a mate whose wisdom you will already read on this site <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
    All I can say really is that I had a wonderful time, that I did it in a house, with a group of friends who had all been doing E for a year or so. When I was waiting for the effects to happen, I read a booklet they had made, " The E files," telling me about the dangers, what to do etc, and Leah Bettes. This calmed me down no end, and then, well, let's say I had a lovely time. All we need is to be more educated about it, I did as much as I could, but I would have probably drunk too much if I had not had the support of others. Then you never know. That is it's risk. The next time I will do it, I will do it in a club, with those friends, as I know that they know a hell of a lot more than I do. Call me stupid or what, but if everyone did what I did on my first time, the dangers of taking this drug must be negliable. All you have to do is know what to do. I SIPPED a half litre bottle of water when I was on it, took regular breaks from dancing round the room <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> and went on walks. The walks were probably the best thing we did. How sureal is that? But, as I say, the Drugs Campaign should tell you what to do, not how bad it is. If Leah and the others had known what to do, Leah etc would not have drunk 12 litres of water. I defy anyone not to be ill after drinking that much water in a night.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hello! I took my first E a few weeks ago, after discussing it with a mate whose wisdom you will already read on this site <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
    All I can say really is that I had a wonderful time, that I did it in a house, with a group of friends who had all been doing E for a year or so. When I was waiting for the effects to happen, I read a booklet they had made, " The E files," telling me about the dangers, what to do etc, and Leah Bettes. This calmed me down no end, and then, well, let's say I had a lovely time. All we need is to be more educated about it, I did as much as I could, but I would have probably drunk too much if I had not had the support of others. Then you never know. That is it's risk. The next time I will do it, I will do it in a club, with those friends, as I know that they know a hell of a lot more than I do. Call me stupid or what, but if everyone did what I did on my first time, the dangers of taking this drug must be negliable. All you have to do is know what to do. I SIPPED a half litre bottle of water when I was on it, took regular breaks from dancing round the room <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> and went on walks. The walks were probably the best thing we did. How sureal is that? But, as I say, the Drugs Campaign should tell you what to do, not how bad it is. If Leah and the others had known what to do, Leah etc would not have drunk 12 litres of water. I defy anyone not to be ill after drinking that much water in a night.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Firstly most of you are not taken real E.
    Most of what made e what it was was MDMA.
    When e started to get big in the clubs in the uk it was £15 to £20 for one. I'm 30 now and have been involved in the dance scene for 13 years, long before cream was even open. I have sold e coke in the clubs year in and year out. Most of the people my age have moved on to coke. everybody who has been on the scene for a long time knows full well that the reson you can now get a pill for a £3-£5 is because there is about a fivers worth of whizz in a pill. your lucky if you can get mdma or mda in a pill, if you do, i say frame it...
    And if you think it make you a better person then what type of person was you before?
    [EMAIL]null[/EMAIL]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've been taking Ecstasy for about 5 years... I've been in hospital with it, had a friend die but had some great times as well and its opened my mind in ways I couldn't imagine.

    With regards to people dying on E, this can happen in 2 methods, heatstroke (self explanitory) or by inter-crainial pressure (this I'll explain).

    Intercrainial Pressure is basically drowing, think of it this way, Pills are an anti-duretic (stop you pissing) and when you drink alcohol thats a duretic (you piss like mad) but ecstasy overpowers the effect of alcohol... Alcohol makes you feel thirsty, so does Ecstasy as your hot and stuff so you drink loads. You stomach can only hold so much, same with your bladder, water/alcohol are absorbed into the blood and if you drink a lot it basically thins the blood (ie. high blood pressure), so try to imagine the senario... your heart rate has increased, you've drunk shite loads and your stomach and bladder are at full capacity, so where does the water go if your blood pressure is maxed out too? An average adult body is 50 to 65 percent water, when theres no where left to go you either do one of two things, vomit or the water makes its way into your CSF (Cerebal Spinal Fluid) in your spine, this is when the danger really starts... CSF is maintained at very close levels and goes all the way up the spine and round your brain. When the CSF volume rises your brain begins to swell, as your all aware the brain is maintained for safety purposes in a shell known as skull, it keeps swelling and basically once its swelled beyond the capacity of the skull you get ICP (Inter-crainial pressure) and the brain then basically crushes itself under the capacity of the skull.

    All the crap you hear about in the newspapers about people bleeding out of every hole is due to death, when you die you basically degrade and blood/liquid oozes out of every available hole...

    As for holes in the brain, brainscans of people who have been heavy users of esctasy show inactive parts and active parts in areas which shouldn't be.

    With regards to neurotransmitters, when you take Esctasy it basically makes them mutate and release about 60% of the brains stored seratoine at once, as all the seratonie crosses these newly formed channels are damaged and the links get destroyed. They do grow back, but differently as they become genetically restructed. Once your 60% of seratoine thats it, and it takes up to 2 weeks for the levels to get back to full capacity... hense why some people take 5-htp supplements (the bodys natural chemical for producing seratoine) to try and help along the process. Thats also why you genuinely feel a bit down 3-4 days after pills, this improving by day 5 and going up from there.

    People who take E should read into the drug heavily and take full responsibility for any side-effects. People say its safe, yes and no... In my 5 years I've had to deal with a lot and once you've been to hospital over it all you'll start to respect the drug.

    Thank you for your time class <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There what Justin explained about -->


    "Intercrainial Pressure is basically drowing, think of it this way, Pills are an anti-duretic (stop you pissing) and when you drink alcohol thats a duretic (you piss like mad) but ecstasy overpowers the effect of alcohol... Alcohol makes you feel thirsty, so does Ecstasy as your hot and stuff so you drink loads. You stomach can only hold so much, same with your bladder, water/alcohol are absorbed into the blood and if you drink a lot it basically thins the blood (ie. high blood pressure), so try to imagine the senario... your heart rate has increased, you've drunk shite loads and your stomach and bladder are at full capacity, so where does the water go if your blood pressure is maxed out too? An average adult body is 50 to 65 percent water, when theres no where left to go you either do one of two things, vomit or the water makes its way into your CSF (Cerebal Spinal Fluid) in your spine, this is when the danger really starts..."

    That is what I ment by danger of 'backflow' ok so i didnt describe as well as Justin has,but it can happen NOT bollocks...

    And if serotoine levels are affected that could lead to clinical depression eventualy... check this site out, its slide show of YOUR brain before, during and after taking e
    http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by WHaTdaHell_ami_d0ingherelol:
    <STRONG>That is what I ment by danger of 'backflow' ok so i didnt describe as well as Justin has,but it can happen NOT bollocks...
    </STRONG>

    You sure didn't describe it very well, because what you described was completely different to what I and Justin described.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by sean62:
    <STRONG>Firstly most of you are not taken real E.
    </STRONG>

    errr...don't be so presumptuos matey.
    I'm also 30, have been involved in the scene for 11 years but haven't moved on to doing coke. I like a line now and then, but I also like an E now and then as well.
    As for not getting good gear - its there if you look for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    btw its spelt serotonin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Slightly digressing back to the original thread and also continuing the "mental" side. I've suffered from depression (manic, retro-active, clinical and biological) and, until last year, have not taken anything stronger than poppers. But the day i discovered E was a liberation for me.
    Docs can stick their Prozac, Paroxetine, Thioridazine, Lustral, Chlorpromazine, Lithium et al up their arses. I can take one little pill and for a few hours i'm the happy, fun, exciting, exuberant, humorous and quite groovy person i used to be.
    It's not that i think about the crap when i'm E, I just don't think about it. The only things that run through my brain are looking after my mates, dancing, smiling and having fun.
    This post is not knocking anyone. Just that it's my life and my rules.
    <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    depression ? maybe through time but the most depressing thing about doing pills is reality, how shit it is in comparison
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right, if any of you want to know what E does to you, like really maybe you might, i found on this site on another link, www.dancesafe.org and the slideshow was really interesting, if not a bit techical. Basically, I think E can be bad for you, but only if you take it in large quantities for a long time, years and years. I will do it again, but I admit to still being scared about the whole thing. That is why I have been reading all about it, so I at least know what it is doing. When I was on E, I have to confess to never feeling so good ever. However, the following night, I did feel very down as I wanted to be " there" again, and I knew I couldn't. As the above poster said, life appears very dull when you have been on E. What is wrong with a little escapism? It is just a shame that the law is so strict. Now I am more scared about that than the actual E. I will wait and see if what happens when I do my first E in a club. I would expect it to be unreal," loving" total strangers. Anyway, take it easy, from reading these postings, it would appear that most of these people actually know what they are talking about. It's a shame that the Politicians don't, and that most people who take E don't bother knowing about it. Ignorance fuels incidence, and future " Drugs Campaigns" should be like the dancesafe site tells you, not that E is dangerous, or an act that will send you to Hell, like my lessons told me I would, and now will, go. Well, it was worth it! <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I got a PM from sean62 in reply to my reply to his post (iykwim). But due to him not accepting PM's (whats that about - send 'em, but don't accept em?) I will reply here.


    >>If your 30 mate then you should know fullwell that the pills were better.<<

    Yes, theres a lot of crap about, but the good stuff is also there. I can get hold of MDMA powder from London (and its the real deal). Yes, I don't get the effects I used to, but this is down to tolerance.

    >>As for getting good drugs it's how i make my living mate.pills are a gateway (you grow out of it or move on ) drug, there not what they were. if you can't afford a bit of charley then have your pills. But the dance scene started in manchester matey<<

    And London, where I'm from.

    >>I'm from inner city manchester 1hlf miles from mosside, been taking and selling drugs for 15 years and if
    Dont mean to have a go mate, but i'm thinking
    your one of them who are into the glow sticks
    and the white gloves.<<

    LOL! As I said in my previous post - don't be so presumptuos. I'm actually a deep house DJ. But I have done the white glove thing (well not actually worn 'em) back in the early 90's hardcore scene.

    >>So if you think pills are the same as they were, then younever knew what they were.<<

    Bullshit. As I said - theres a lot of crap about, but there is also good stuff around. You just have to look for it.

    >>Why do you think there so cheap?<<

    Supply and demand, economies of scale. Basic economics mate...

    >> weeds not any cheaper (for the small users) then it was ten years ago.<<

    Yes it is. Hash used to be about £12 - £15 1/8, its now about £8 - £10. And the quality of grass has got better as more people in this country grow their own.

    >>Coke more or less the same price per g.<<

    No, thats cheaper as well. Dropped from about £60/g 10 years ago to £40 - £50.

    >>Pills are cheap now because it's not he same drug as they was.<<

    Learn to read.

    >>Every arse whipe with a press is knocking out shit pills it's harder to get hold of mdma from the dam.<<

    Not if you have the right connections.

    >>you come down miles faster of most pills now then ten years ago,<<

    Due to tolerance. According to my copy of PIHKAL, MDMA has a duration of 4 - 6 hours, MDA has a duration of 8 - 12. (although short acting pills could be MDEA with a duration of 3 - 5 hours. But they don't feel loved up like MDMA, so its not difficult to know the difference.)

    >>Phase 4s or the old doves, would knock most people on there fucking arse, who take the shit that you think is E now.<<

    I agree the old doves were great (or some batches were). But pills that knock you on you're arse are likely to be MDA (heavy, trippy pills). There were shit pills around 'back in the day' as well y'know.

    >>It was underground, it's in the fucking charts, the daily star said we were all evil kids,they called it drug music they thought that raves should be band. now they've got a fuckin colum called rave for fuck sake. the music has been watered down and so has E...<<

    I agree with these sentiments, but learn to read posts before firing off presumptous, ill-informed rubbish like you did.

    As I said originally - good pills are still about if you know where to look.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta:
    <STRONG>
    >>It was underground, it's in the fucking charts, the daily star said we were all evil kids,they called it drug music they thought that raves should be band. now they've got a fuckin colum called rave for fuck sake. the music has been watered down and so has E...<<

    I agree with these sentiments
    </STRONG>

    It's still underground mate. Granted a lot has gone comercial but that's just helped to drive the rest even deeper underground. My way there's still plenty of plenty of free parties either in lockdowns (dissused warehouse's), or out in the forest somewhere knocking out some acid house and techno.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh, I know theres still an underground - I DJ with a free party system myself. The point is that it is no longer exclusively underground. E-rave and clubbing has become a mainstream lifestyle option.

    [ 19-12-2001: Message edited by: Blagsta ]
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