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Depends on whether we want the sailors back or not. Perhaps after they have been returned?
Exactly. Diplomacy has it's place and that is when both sides play by the same "rules" of the game. If you don't then the gloves should come off, if appropriate.
When one sides is allowed to ride roughshod, and people are keen to appease the trouble maker, you end up with large scale wars.
I don't, however, think that we have reached that stage yet in this case.
Not sure why people think that we don't have such a capability...
Any action we take AGAINST Iran will further inflame situations in the middle east, where many of the Islamic nations feel united 'under god', and as such a threat or insult against one results in effectively a jihad with mass hatred (and even war) against the enemy. For example; Israel. Although I have to say Israel has no respect for human rights whatsoever, basically abducting whoever the hell they like from wherever the hell they like and holding them for an indefinate amount of period, or just executing them on the spot. Anyway...
If you were running the country, it's a balancing act. Obviously, first priority is to get our soldiers safely out of Iran, one because they are British soldiers and we have a responsibility to look out for them, two because they are one big ass political pawn, and we really don't like them being held over our heads.
Second priority, is making sure the situation in the middle east doesn't get any worse. I mean, Iraq is basically in a civil war already, the US and UK are trying to solve the problem with more soldiers, but there is already terrible war weariness in the UK (and now growing in America) where every extra soldier going over there means less confidence in the government when we said we were going to go in, give them 'democracy and freedom', then get out.
And all the while, politics in a democracy, at the end of the day, is about who can do the most PR stunts and in turn, get the most votes. Blair has not too long left now, he wants a good legacy, and then Iran pulling stunts like this (lets be fair - even if they DID stray inside Iranian waters, arresting them and questioning them is way OTT 'in the name of God') is probably meaning he's thinking 'little twats, lets just press the red button' too.
The UK, politically, is very vulnerable, with near global opposition to the Iraq war, with it appearing we're a puppet state to the US, with repeated scandals (cash for honours), and I think possibly the Iranian spinmen saw this as an opportunity to exploit that, and so Iranian boatmen were on the lookout for British mariners to take in. Certainly, if French mariners strayed into our waters whose standing orders would it be to capture them on sight?
So, as the saying goes, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. The people will hate [the government] either way, many middle eastern arabs already do, but this kind of thing isn't going to endear us with them. Sure, America, France, Germany - our buddies - are all going to back us up and have a slanging match at the UN thing coming up, but they were going to do that anyway. Metaphorically, Iran has just thrown a great big egg at the face of the UK, they'll only get a slap on the wrist for it. A war may be around the corner, but lets face it - GWB has had that on the cards for years anyway.
So I guess tactically, PR stunts like this which get British and American citizens saying 'we're giving them democracy!!! - why should we help them if they treat us like this' is one of the only ways to strike back. There's no way of competing in terms of military might.
What I don't like, is that's it's all so underhand. It's like (forgive me for this) Israel. 'Yea, it's wrong, but oh well'. So since Israel has been pestering Iran for years (tbf it's mutual these days) you can't really say it's unexpected. In times of 'war' (and I think there is a war of ideology, not with guns but with media and spin, basically) you do have to stoop lower to get ahead.
But, give the PM a bottle of Bourbon, and let him press the red button, I could understand his frustration. 'FOAD I'm not in the mood' is the term I think
WOW and some of you guys are concerned with global warming.
Dr Strangelove eat your gloved hand out !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6525905.stm
Storm in a teacup if you ask me.
Wars have been started for less I'm sure.
As I said - storm in a teacup. A bit of sabre rattling and things go on as before.
meh
As I said though wars have started for less and it could have snowballed. I think it was definately something to be concerened about.
Going on 'holiday' to see the Taliban is a bit different to serving in the Royal Navy.
What are you on about now?
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=DB535924V&news_headline=britain_humiliated_by_iran_over_hostages
Who knows? Dis seems to get more and more detached from reality every day.
But then I don't have reading comprehension problems
I presume its something to do with the assumption that anyone arrested in Pakistan must have been at Taliban training camps - despite there being any evidence for it. :rolleyes:
All of which prompted not even 1% of the protestations that the government has uttered regarding the 15 servicemen, who by all accounts have been treated in a far better manner than the poor sods rotting away at Gitmo.
This might be unacceptable:
But this is a million times worse and more repugnant:
You think they just picked up people at random then? I agree the process is flawed, but the idea that these were just random people going about their daily business is laughable.
And yes there is a difference between servants of the state being held and anyone else. You could equally say that the British Government isn't doing as much for the British oil rig worker currently kidnapped in Nigeria or the BBC journalist kidnapped in Palestine...
Don`t assume.
In your first example could it be that the "prisoner" is being forced to inhale evil tobacco ?
In your second those folks may be being protected from DEADLY second-hand smoke .
Where's the evidence then?
They'll be home in 40 minutes anyway.
Who said it was justified?
Don't be ridiculous.
Would you condone legal kidnapping ?
Well noone, apologies for my rhetoric. What I meant, was it was poor to take a different issue and imply this wasn't that bad in comparison. Yes we should condemn people being taken thousands of miles and detained indefinately without trial, but just because our government does that, we shouldn't let that overshadow how wrong this was, how inhumane. Whether they were treated well or badly, they were still prisoners, against their will, for something they did not do.
Seeker: what would you define as a legal kidnapping? Kidnapping is a crime, and thus inherintly illegal. That's like saying would you condone a legal murder.
Well it was legal as far as the Iranians are concerned. If a Iranian patrol boat came into what we considered to be British waters, then we'd do exactly the same thing - demand an apology and then release them. It was definitely a PR stunt, but imo the Iranian president's come out of it looking like a bit of a tool. It was so obviously about drawing a parallel between Guantanamo and the way Iran treats its prisoners, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that this was the plan all along (let's face it, the Iranians know that those waters are at least disputed, so they can claim legitimate reason to arrest them).