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You've got to hand it to the French

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well some services are quite good but there are still major deficiencies in some areas that should not exist in country like Britain.
    :yes:
    There is really no excuse for the lack of a true high speed line linking London with the North. It is quite bad (and bad for the country's image and economy) that we have no high speed railways here.
    :yes:
    Three out of four public transport passengers in the London- Glasgow route choose the plane over the train. That is bad enough. But that there are many daily flights between London and Manchester is nothing short of a disgrace. There shouldn't be anyone flying between London and Manchester out of choice.

    People should be allowed to fly between London and Manchester if they choose. However a high speed rail line would really get people to consider taking rail instead of air. Only a credible alternative to air travel will convince people to change their traveling habits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    There is really no excuse for the lack of a true high speed line linking London with the North.

    GNER, London to Leeds is under 2 1/2 hours. Driving takes 3-4 hours. The plane (if getting to Heathrow from London and getting to Leeds from Leeds-Bradford airport is factored in) would be significantly slower than the train. And the train is cheaper...

    I don't know what you would call a 'true high speed line' but GNER is pretty quick and the journey times for their services are I think comparable to the fast high speed services in Germany..

    Manchester with Virgin is under 2 hours now if you get a fast train. I don't think that's bad.

    Cutting 45 minutes off the journey from London to Edinburgh or whatever would be nice but surely there should be higher priorities - such as improving local/regional train services and city public transport systems. Look at public transport in Birmingham for a start. Oh and it would be nice if Cross Rail happened in our lifetime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would say overcrowding (rather than journey times) is the biggest concern on UK railways at the moment.

    One morning or afternoon in the near-future you'll hear about a 'Hillsborough" crush on a train , mark my words.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the industry considers high speed lines those capable of at least 280kph/175mph, though the true high speed lines are those capable of 300kph/186mph.

    Such lines are usually built as a complement to existing routes as they need special requirements. There are no delays or timetable adjustments caused by other, slower trains because there are no other trains on the line. As a result you have very fast trains that are able to use their high speed to their maximum potential.

    The cut in journey times is phenomenal. It would no be unthinkable for a TGV to reach Manchester in 1.15h, or Glasgow in 2.30h, which would tip the balance in the air vs. rail travel passenger numbers. At present the number of passengers who choose to fly to Glasgow and even Manchester from London is shockingly high.

    And of course you could also reach Paris, Brussels and various other French, Belgian and German cities in about 5 hours from Manchester and 6.5h from Scotland, which would further cut down on air travel.

    Last but not least, high speed railways are good value for money as they add to the prestige of a country and make it more attractive to businesses and tourists alike. It is believed for every Pound spent on high speed railways you will eventually get £1.80 back in extra income generated.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The cut in journey times is phenomenal. It would not be unthinkable for a TGV to reach Manchester in 1.15h, or Glasgow in 2.30h, which would tip the balance in the air vs. rail travel passenger numbers.
    :yes:

    It could also mean people could commute from places like Manchester, Nottingham, Bristol etc and work in London. This could go a long way to reducing the shortage of housing and the high property prices in the south east. With better links to the rest of the country, we may see some the the wealth currently fixed in the south east spread further around the country.
    And of course you could also reach Paris, Brussels and various other French, Belgian and German cities in about 5 hours from Manchester and 6.5h from Scotland, which would further cut down on air travel.
    :yes:
    Last but not least, high speed railways are good value for money as they add to the prestige of a country and make it more attractive to businesses and tourists alike. It is believed for every Pound spent on high speed railways you will eventually get £1.80 back in extra income generated.
    :yes:

    Lets have something to be proud of in this country. There is presious little else. At the moment our thrid world rail system does nothing to promote Britain as a place to work or visit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All the same, it's still a question of money - although having said that, if we didn't go to Iraq, I bet we could afford a dozen high speed rail networks. :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    Lets have something to be proud of in this country. There is presious little else. At the moment our thrid world rail system does nothing to promote Britain as a place to work or visit.

    Bit of hyperbole I think!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    All the same, it's still a question of money - although having said that, if we didn't go to Iraq, I bet we could afford a dozen high speed rail networks. :(

    Exactly.

    We are a highly taxed country, yet our health care is always short of cash, our education system needs more money, and we need billions to sort our third world transport system out. We have all these taxes gone? cos it sure isnt on improving transport.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But bear in mind that they get taxed much more in France... here's the income tax bands:

    0% - ?5,515
    5.5% - ?5,516 to ?10,846
    14% - ?10,847 to ?24,432
    30% - ?24,433 to ?65,559
    40% - Over ?65,559

    And in France (although they have good doctors) you need to have health insurance to be allowed access. Since nearly 1 in 10 people who are seeking employment (i.e. not disabled / too young etc.) are unable to find work, your chances aren't too great. France typically does big stunts like fast trains etc. - but then shits on the working class.

    Bear in mind that the government has consistently spent more money than it has in income. This will eventually lead to inflation, and the poor people without jobs wont be able to afford a loaf of bread, and the government thinks throwing money that it doesnt have will solve the problem - but it just makes it worse.
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Well some services are quite good but there are still major deficiencies in some areas that should not exist in country like Britain.

    Such as? I guarantee that in every single case you trawl out lack of government investment will be to blame!

    Braineater wrote: »
    I would say overcrowding (rather than journey times) is the biggest concern on UK railways at the moment.

    One morning or afternoon in the near-future you'll hear about a 'Hillsborough" crush on a train , mark my words.

    Which is what the money Network Rail has put forward for. Longer platforms for longer trains, better signalling for more trains. All you need now is more trains. The government have promised 1000 extra carriages which by all accounts are again for London and the South East. However only 2 of the 10 most crowded trains in the country are in London & SE. Typical thinking by Government that nothing exists above Watford.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote: »
    Such as? I guarantee that in every single case you trawl out lack of government investment will be to blame!
    I'm not suggesting otherwise. Britain once led the world in railway engineering and its current shortcomings are due to chronic lack of investment by successive governments- with additional problems created by its privatisation.

    The only things that stop Britain from getting the world class service it deserves are greed and neglect.
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    If the French are so good what about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6528821.stm

    :p
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