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:yes:
i really really hate saying this but i have to agree with Kermit
Erm... fundamentally, in the eyes of the law, marriage is the legal act of enshrining rights to property. So how is this different to what is being suggested - other than being an act of choice rather that state intervention?
Has that been argued here?
Erm... because they have signed a contract?
Are you suggetsing that the minute you cohabit then equal rights applies? That your housemate should be treated as next of kin and should therefore have complete control of your affair if you become incapacitated?
You are correct you don't. But then this isn't about the state validating your love, it's about a legal contract between you and your partner - which incidentally doesn't even have to be a loved one, it could just be a housemate.
You want you partern to be treated as legal next of kin, then sign those rights over - until you do then it's nearest living blood relative.
But the way I see it, this law would mean that those who want to cohabit but aren't ready for the whole completely legal attatchment to each other, are discriminated against, because by the simple act of moving in together, even if you've known each other 2 months, if you die then your stuff will go to this person, even if you intended it to go to your mum or whatever. And stuff like that, really.
If you were really fussed about making a point of not wanting to get married because you don't want the state to say it's official, you can legally say yourself you want this person to be designated your partner and in the event that anything happens to you, you want them looked after.
Because, aside from marriage where it's fairly obvious there's a big commitment involved (and those who get married and don't want to commit are a bit dumb...), it should be 'opt-in' rather than an automatic 'you live together, therefore are as good as married'.
Blagsta, it's a bit perplexing, you say you don't want the state to validate your relationship, but should anything happen to you, you'd want the state to acknowledge your relationship... imo they are part of the same thing. The system isn't really broken - you want to be recognised as a couple - people get married / civil ceremony. You want to just cohabit, that's fine.
Like Kermit says, this law just makes everything really complicated, when the system works already. I think there should be more scope for couple's to make themselves 'official' with the state outside of a 'marriage' which is tied to religion at it's roots, so there are people who 'don't believe in marriage'... but I don't see how people who are unwilling to make their relationship official before the state for whatever reason, expect to have their relationship registered and seen as official should anything happen.
Last time I looked, people didn't tend to marry their housemates.
It shouldn't have to be marriage though. Married people should not automatically get rights that others don't.
Indeed, but they might want them to have property rights
Who said it did have to be marriage? It just has be be done in a way recognised by law, and in a manner which clearly shows that a choice has been made to hand over "next of kin" rights to someone else.
Perhaps I should chose the expression better. I don't mean that you should have to go through a religious ceremony, but a registry office really isn't too much to ask for the rights which follow is it?
Hmmmmm...you have a point. Dammit.
from here
So by giving couples who live together legal rights of married couples and getting them to legally enter into agreements the government is in effect manipulating them into a marriage (according to the above definitions of marriage). So whether or not you choose to get married it seems the government is attempting to lessen the blow for those people. Those people being ones who claim don't need government acknowledgement but are seeking it when it suits them.
As many have said, marriage suits me...mainly because of my religious faith but also because i was raised in an environment where if you want to live with someone then you bloody well will marry them.
One of the main problems here is that the UK doesnt promote religion, traditional families and typical family values. Look around you, in the UK you have the highest rates of EVERYTHING bad/negative, crime of all sorts is on the increase daily, abortion and teen/unplanned pregnancies, drug abuse and alcohol abuse and to top it all off unemployment is skyrocketing through the roof as more and more people are resorting to the dole. Im not saying religion will fix all these problems but i am saying that the UK has always been too lax in respect to these problems and is being to lax towards its views on marriage.
Do what you want to do, i have nothing against people living together....what i do have a problem with is those people expecting to be treated the same as people who have entered into a legal and binding contract. I just want to know what exactly your reasons are for not wanting to get married? (And dont give me any rubbish about not needing to seek government approval)
It's fine saying that, marriage suits you, but then going on to say:
is going down dangerous territory. Because we're what I would call a fairly liberal society, in that we are 'lax', that you don't need to marry someone to live with them, that's not a bad thing. That's a great thing, in fact, it gives people more freedom and choice.
Saying 'everything bad/negative ... is on the increase daily' is incorrect.
Saying 'unemployment is skyrocketing through the roof as more and more people are resorting to the dole' is also, incorrect. We have one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the world, 2.9%. [CIA factbook]
At the end of the day, suggesting that problems are down to social attitudes of people in the UK, even in a roundabout way, is quite insulting. Yea, sometimes there are problems, but the UK is much better off than most countries in the world, most countries in Europe, etc.
I think the difference here, is you have failed to empathise with Blagsta and people who don't want to get married. He has a perfectly legitimate gripe. You shouldn't HAVE to marry someone you're in love with, that's removing your freedom.
I think there should be a way of saying to the government 'hey, we're a couple', incase anything does happen, but without having to necessarily get married, which is what I said in my earlier post. We can't have a system where you move in to a house with your girlfriend / boyfriend, then automatically become seen as a couple who wish to have all the legal rights of marriage, because then you may as well just move in with someone rather than marry them. But then again, why should you have to wear a dress and a suit and say to god you want his blessing, or the blessing of the country, or the register, that you are now man and wife.
:rolleyes:
Yes liberal is good, freedom is also good...but expecting the same rights as people who get married goes beyond free and liberal and borders into a desperate attempt to protect peoples rights. Which im sorry, but if people decide not to get married is their own fault...the option is there for everyone.
I don't need to empathise with him or anyone else, i have my views and i stick to them...im not forcing him or anyone else to get married i am just expressing my opinions. And according to Kermit there is a way to let the government know you're a couple, why isnt that enough?
And yes i may not have been accurate, but hell...from what ive seen on skynews and bbcworld and read in the times and guardian....things arent getting better in the UK.
And you live in a country that has such a good human rights record eh?
Pffffffffffft :rolleyes:
You're wanking on about how lack of religion is what is wrong with the UK. TBH, I don't see that religion has done much good for people in Dubai.
Which is what I said, but there isn't, as far as I know, anyway of making a relationship 'recognised' other than marriage (or, if you're gay, a civil ceremony), which if you don't believe in the sanctity of marriage - that you love someone and don't need god / the country to prove it (which, for someone like you who does believe marriage is an important part of love, is why you need to try to empathise with why people wouldn't want to, otherwise nobody gets anywhere) - kinda means you've either got a choice of a) having a mock wedding that doesn't mean anything just for the legal protection (Kermit's suggestion I think) or b) being screwed over if you DO want your OH to be given your pension / estate etc. when you die, because even though you lived together for 20 years, oh dear, you weren't married.
You don't need to empathise with him, but it would help a lot I think in seeing both sides of the argument. The way to let the government know you are a couple is to get married, I don't know of any other way. You could, in theory, write loads of legal paperwork (which I'm sure Kermit would love
The nature of the news is to report the bad stuff that's happening, the dramatic. You will always get a skewed perception if you just go on what you've read, rather than living there full time.
...and you know about the UK...how exactly?
btw, Human Rights Watch would disagree with you
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=uae
as would Amnesty International
http://www.amnesty.org/airesults/search?access=p&submit=GO&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&site=default_collection&ie=iso-8859-1&lr=lang_en&client=eng&oe=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=eng&q=united+arab+emirates&ip=192.168.1.6&start=10
:eek2:
Of course, it's all the British's fault.
I would suggest though, that you learn more about your own country's history. Every country has problems, some worse than others.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41734.htm
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html#Issues
http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/000345.php
http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/resources/cameljockeysgallery/gallery.htm
Oh my God....its exactly what i said it would be about, labourers and camel jockeys. Dig up some real dirt that would get me going and you would get more of a rise out of me
And yes, news is there to report bad things....its the same the world over.
ETA: I know soooo much about the UK because i have lived there, do live there for 3months a year (plus other short holidays) and own property there.....oh and im a british citizen (born in Uk to a british mother)
Yes, but why do people need to be encourage to be married?
None so blind eh? :rolleyes:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: to get the rights they are complaining they dont have!
or disappearing people?
or death by stoning?
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE250022000?open&of=ENG-ARE
Yeah, religion's done these people a world of good :rolleyes:
You're arguing in circles.
People don't get married because they want more rights though.
And the second case, you think you don't have political crimes in the UK? Don't be so naive, he's problably in jail in the middle of the desert and will turn up in a couple of years...happens all the time
And yes, religion has done a lot for the majority of practising believers...whether it be in the middle east, europe, india, the Americas or anywhere else for that matter. You are picking on things that are moving away from the subject and have turned your attentions to attack me and my country....why? I at least related things to the subject at hand.