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Aren't driving tests stupid?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Someone I know just failed, with 2 minors and 1 major. The major was for lack of observation, because apparently at a junction they didn't look. But they did, the examiner was just a bit shit and was too busy being shit. :mad:

I'm really annoyed, because this is the third time they've failed, and each time it's stupiddddd things they fail on, that should be a minor. I reckon the examiners just have a quota tbh, because my friend is actually a really good driver, compared to other people I know who have passed especially.

I know there will be those who say 'if they failed then they're not good enough for the roads', but the examiner said to them:

"It's a tricky junction to see anyway, but you didn't even glance at any of the oncoming cars, you just kept going" which was just simply not true, because they can tell me the cars that were coming to the junction and where they were going! How do you know that without looking?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Driving tests are daft, I failed a couple for getting daft majors.

    The observation thing is really hard though because the examiner has to make a judgement call as to how much you can see just flicking your eyes.

    Personally I think the minors limit should be a lot lower.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *fume*

    I am a bit perplexed though, because another of my friends, although I love her, passed months ago and is still a bit shit... however this friend who failed today is practically perfect, the only minor thing is that they don't have inccredible confidence i.e. will let other cars go, stick to speed limits religiously or less. But I think that's the best attitude before you've got a lot of experience, it's so stupid they got failed for not looking when they did.

    Do driving instructors get in trouble if they pass too many people?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I start lessons on thursday - not feeling too optimistic now lol. What's the limit of minors and majors before you fail?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's nothing wrong with sticking to speed limits.

    If you get one major or dangerous you fail, screw it up realy badly and you'll be walking back to the test centre. I think the limit for minors is about 16.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not fixed always, it's down to the examiner how many minors in one thing constitute a major, but sometimes between 3 - 5. I think you can have up to 15 total, not sure though.

    1 major and you fail. So, even if you look at a junction, if you don't make it incredibly obvious, and the examiner has passed a lot of people recently, they might fail ya anyway cos it's nice to keep their stats in line.

    My driving instructor repeatedly tells me the test is BS and you just have to learn to pass it, then you learn to drive.

    Sorry if I sound a bit like a stupid prick, I'm just really annoyed. How can they fail you for something that you didn't do wrong?!?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It does sound a harsh decision for your mate, all i can suggest is to emphasise things the next time they go for a test.

    I hardly every look in my mirrors when i'm just driving down the road now, and even when i was on my lessons i didn't very often, but on my test i made a point of moving my head slightly up to make it obvious i was glancing in the mirror every half a dozen lamp posts or so.

    At main junctions, stop and put my head forward slightly to look left and right, just really pathetic things that you shouldn't need to do, but gives them no chance to fail you because of it.

    But like i said, very harsh on your friend, if they are as good as you say, i'm sure they won't have long to wait before they are ripping off those L Plates! Just expensive stuff those tests :impissed:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You fail because they think you did it wrong, and at the moment that is the best system we've got.

    You can either get a major for repeatedly getting the same minor or for one more serious thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I mean, the first two tests they failed were small errors, but down to them (not staying close enough to the curb when reversing round a corner, and I think the second time someone gave way to them but they should have stopped and waited). This time, they were completely without fault. *shrug*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You fail because they think you did it wrong, and at the moment that is the best system we've got.

    You can either get a major for repeatedly getting the same minor or for one more serious thing.

    Yea I know, I'm just angry :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My instructor always told me to make sure I move my head a lot when I'm checking my mirrors, rather than just using my eyes, so that he can notice when you're looking for things. It's really unnatural, but it worked. And I don't agree that the minors limit should be lower. You're not going to kill someone if you hit the curb at 1mph when reversing round a corner, or you park over someone's drive, or stall during a hill start, but you could if you don't look properly at a junction and pull out. Obviously it's still down to the individual instructors discretion, but that doesn't mean that the guidelines are wrong. Too many minors suggests you're not in full control of the vehicle, or don't have a good understanding of the highway code. A major means you could be putting other drivers at risk. And both should result in a fail. But a few honest mistakes, factoring in nerves, should be allowed, as long as it's not the .

    I actually reckon that the standard of driving in this country is pretty good. Whenever I see someone driving badly on the road, it tends to be because they're lacking concentration, willfully breaking the rules, or simply being too lazy to do what they know they should, rather than because of any lack of ability. Can't blame the driving test for that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.

    Oh loads of people say that. Blame someone else for not driving properly when they were on their test. That may be the case, but in real life, people don't drive properly all the time, and so it's how you deal with it that's determines whether you pass. Sure, some people might be lucky, and not have that wanker who changes lanes suddenly in front of you, or doesn't indicate at the roundabout. But that doesn't mean that because you failed as a result of someone else driving poorly, that it wasn't your reaction that was the reason for you failing. And of course in something where the instructor has to make a judgement, there'll be plenty of cases where people disagree with him, or he even makes a bad decision. But I suspect that the reason you've never met someone who's failed because of their own driving, is because they come back after failing their test, and blame someone else. I reckon 90% of these could probably be justified if you got the instructors side of it too, but you only hear one side. It'd be like getting a referee's report from Neil Warnock after his side just lost on a penalty. Circumstances might not be kind to you on your test, but in most cases, that doesn't mean it's not your fault for failing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i`m not having a go shyboy...but you weren't in the car

    you're friend may be a very good driver with you in the car, but test day nerves may have got to them, i think this will happen to me, when i'm driving with my mum or fella, i`m great, but i know on the big day nerves will get the better of me

    if it's the 3rd time they've failed, i dont really think you can blame the examiners, maybe your mate has confidence issues and got it wrong on the day?

    like i said, i'm not having a go...just wondering how you can be so sure that they should have passed :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I trust them when they say they looked, and the reason they failed wsnt for poor observation, but the examiner said they didn't look at all. But they can tell me what cars were at the junction.

    You're right, it is a judgement call and the examiner probably thought it was justified, but at the end of the day my friend is one of the best drivers I know, and I knew others who have passed and don't have that natural driving ability. They failed their first two, and knew why, but this time they failed for something that wasn't true.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.



    Yep - I'm with you on this.

    I, of course, passed first time ;):D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I passed third time - bloody taxi drivers :mad:

    Bit everyone fails because of that berk in the taxi, or the moron in the white van, or because the examiner was shite. It's quite amusing really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I failed on sodding bad luck.

    I was the one that pulled out onto the main road when the nice lady in the landy gave me a sapce and let me out, but I was the one that pulled out. (Test One, 2 other minors)

    I was the second car going down a road narrowed by parked cars, I suppose I should have been the odd one out and waited until nothing was coming the other way and I would have had 3ft on each side of the car, but at the time that seemed a daft idea, but I was the one that went through the narrow gap. (Test 2, 1 other minor)

    I was the one that was creeping out of the test centre that caused the prat that came speeding round the corner to brake hard. My fault, I was creeping forward in chunks and he saw me moving rather than stationary so he braked hard. The examiner had a marginally better view of it because of his position in the car, and the prat shouldn't have been speeding but it was me pulling out. (Test 3, perfect otherwise) I object to this one a little more, but my I suppose my actions did pose a risk, even if I had no way of knowing.

    Cancelled due to examiners strike. (Test 4)

    Test 5. Passed, 1 minor (stalled on the up down bit of kerb coming out the test centre).

    I accept, each time I failed it was my fault. My only objection to the system is that you can get so many minors and still pass. The odd little thing is fine, but not 15.

    Shyboy, can you remember what the approaching traffic was last time you pulled out at a junction? (not the most recent one, but the one two before that).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, but then again I'm not driving! My friend only remembered after the instructor told them which junction it was.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.


    I did. I'm rubbish at reversing around corners and on my first test I hit the kerb. Passed second time though :)

    One trick is to move your rear-view mirror up slightly - so that you actually have to lift your head a little in order to see it. It just makes it very obvious that you are actually checking your mirror.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I did. I'm rubbish at reversing around corners and on my first test I hit the kerb. Passed second time though :)

    One trick is to move your rear-view mirror up slightly - so that you actually have to lift your head a little in order to see it. It just makes it very obvious that you are actually checking your mirror.



    He was being sarcastic............ :rolleyes: :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've failed my test 5 times. I've yet to pass. Tbh, there is two of those tests where I should have passed. The other 3 I failed for good reasons. The last two examiners I had though were just very harsh and the mistakes I made should have been minors. I've had friends pass having done the same thing on their test. Ah well. I suppose they have to be careful about who they let on the roads.
  • littlemissylittlemissy Posts: 9,972 Supreme Poster
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.
    :lol:

    I know someone who failed because they hit a pedestrian. Who was walking on a pavement!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know someone who failed because they wrote off their driving instructors brand new car, did serious damage to a police car, and a double decker bus.

    Poor boy gave up driving.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :lol:

    I know someone who failed because they hit a pedestrian. Who was walking on a pavement!

    OMG why were they driving on the pavement!?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know someone who failed because they wrote off their driving instructors brand new car, did serious damage to a police car, and a double decker bus.

    Poor boy gave up driving.

    That's just harsh. Some of these instructors can't use a bit of common sense. I mean you've got to expect a few little mistakes from nerves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :lol:

    I know someone who failed because they hit a pedestrian. Who was walking on a pavement!

    Ha ha. That's hysterical. I hope that they were alright.

    Shyboy - I was a really good driver before I went for my tests. My examiner got proper annoyed and wanted to go back in to fall out with the examiners on the two tests that I failed, well, maybe not on the first one. As it was though, it was me that made the mistakes. No matter how good a driver I was, I just struggled under test conditions.

    Eventually I passed on my 3rd go and I had about 12 minors, which is the reason that I don't think that they should lower the minors limit. I appreciate that if someone keeps making the same mistake that they should fail but don't three minors on the same thing make a major anyway?

    Unfortunately, driving tests do just come down to how somebody drives on an hour of one particular day. And yes, you do have to make things obvious. Just like for your GCSEs you get taught a bunch of tricks to help you get better marks, it's the same in your driving test. Make it obvious that you're looking at junctions and using your mirrors by using your head, not just your eyes. Descrease speed when coming up to a zebra crossing to show that you've considered a pedestrian may come running at it from behind a hedge. And all the rest of it!!!

    As for remembering what cars were coming up to a junction, the only time I remember things like that clearly are when something has happened to make me notice it, such as me having to pull out quickly because another car was going faster than I realised. I'm not saying that your mate did anything wrong Shyboy but the fact that they can remember in such detail seems a little bit odd to me. Sorry. I know they're you're mate and it's annoying when shit people pass and good people don't but it is just how it goes on the day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's just harsh. Some of these instructors can't use a bit of common sense. I mean you've got to expect a few little mistakes from nerves.

    Lol.

    I met someone who failed as they crashed into a milk float which just 'suddenly' pulled out in front of them!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet someone who failed their driving test because of their own errors.

    :yes:

    I failed the first time, and I admit that it was kind of dangerous, I stopped at junction, looked saw there were no cars coming, however it was kind of a blind corner so as I pulled out a car came round the corner at about 60mph, in a 30 limit.....so it was dangerous, but if that car hadnt been going so fast, i wuda had plenty of time, and he wudnt of had to brake so harshly....I hope he realised I was on my test, knew he was going too fast and felt really guilty :mad:

    I passed now though......

    its 1 major = fail,
    15 minors = 1 major = fail,
    3 minors of same category = 1 major = fail

    And yes I agree drving test are very hard to pass, but i think confidence is a big part of it, and experiance, after my first test my confidence, speed and overall ability to drive went up purely because I knew what it was about by then. So my confidence passed me 2nd time round.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I passed first time and I hit a kerb. Why? Because I'm a wicked driver :D Seriously though it's total luck of the draw as to whether you get a good examiner. Might was amaze. I was so nervous and he was really great.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think what you need to remember is that the examiners have been (generally) doing the examining (and driving) for a lot longer than you have. If the examiner says that you didn't do this or you should have done that, then it's more likely that they are right than you are.

    After you've been driving for a while you can look back and think "yeah, I was wrong" or "yeah, I was right, but it was so marginal I guess it's best for them to urge on the side of caution".
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