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Make immigrants work for their passport

In an effort to look slightly more nasty and racist than the Tories Brown has suggested that before people get granted a passport they should be forced to do community service. Which apparently will engender them to their local community - and of course wont make them feel really exploited.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6399457.stm

So, should we get those sponging darkies digging ditches and picking up litter before they get a passport?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I used to think that Brown would be a good primeminister

    How naive.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    In an effort to look slightly more nasty and racist than the Tories Brown has suggested that before people get granted a passport they should be forced to do community service. Which apparently will engender them to their local community - and of course wont make them feel really exploited.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6399457.stm

    So, should we get those sponging darkies digging ditches and picking up litter before they get a passport?

    I don't see anything that terrible in it. And who said it would be digging ditches and litter picking, I think you are confusing this idea with a community order that convicted criminals are given.

    It depends what the work is really. I mean I have done volunteering and did not feel exploited.

    But forcing people to do work in the community may not work, and if a person works full time it could be unworkable. I don't see anything wrong in it though, ideally we would ALL go and help out with some sort of community work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just a small question:

    How can you make it compulsory to volunteer? :crazyeyes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote: »
    It depends what the work is really. I mean I have done volunteering and did not feel exploited.

    But forcing people to do work in the community may not work, and if a person works full time it could be unworkable. I don't see anything wrong in it though, ideally we would ALL go and help out with some sort of community work.

    You didnt feel exploited because you werent being forced.

    I totally agree with you, I do work for a couple of charities myself - but this is forced labour by another term.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think this country shouldn't hand out passports / citizenship out so easily tbh. or say come to the uk have a baby and we'll make you british. wtf.
    thats all i have to say
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote: »
    i think this country shouldn't hand out passports / citizenship out so easily tbh. or say come to the uk have a baby and we'll make you british. wtf.
    thats all i have to say

    Do you have any personal experience of this?

    I know a couple of people who have applied for citizenship and it is not an easy process.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote: »
    i think this country shouldn't hand out passports / citizenship out so easily tbh. or say come to the uk have a baby and we'll make you british. wtf.
    thats all i have to say

    do remind me how hard you had to graft for your passport/citizenship? Oh yes, that's right, you were just born here- how grand!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote: »
    i think this country shouldn't hand out passports / citizenship out so easily tbh. or say come to the uk have a baby and we'll make you british. wtf.
    thats all i have to say

    Dont believe the hype, it isnt easy to get a passport and it isnt easy to get asylum either (Sweden regularly takes more asylum seekers than us, as does Germany).

    Even marrying a Brit doesnt get you a full passport for four years.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote: »
    i think this country shouldn't hand out passports / citizenship out so easily tbh. or say come to the uk have a baby and we'll make you british. wtf.
    thats all i have to say

    That's not how it works.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    'Arbeit Macht Frei'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    'Arbeit Macht Frei'

    You're going to have to excuse my ignorance, what on earth does that mean?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Work makes us free"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've always thought that immigrants should have to attend mandatory basic English lessons (paid for by the state though), just to aid integration. I don't think that would be such a bad thing.
    Although a lot of people working in the UK with poor English are probably here temporarily on a work visa so it probably wouldn't be of much use.

    don't think forced community service is a good idea though. as much as it would aid in getting the jobs done that no one wants to do, it would just make the immigrants feel used.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    "Work makes us free"

    To add that it was posted over the gates to Dachau
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To add that it was posted over the gates to Dachau

    Actually it was Auchwitz but close enough.

    In principle I don't see whats wrong with this proposal, as long as it was run properly and with dignity for the people involved. But then I think all citizens should perform a years national service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't see anything wrong in them doing community work if they don't have a job. I think people on JSA should do some too, it would give them experience, stop them being bored and maybe help get them a job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have always thought that community projects have been a good idea.
    But not the community service that Brown has in mind.
    Browns idea is too much like the old slavery days. It is more likely to outcast them than to integrate them.
    I think that people emigrating here should work or be in education to receive a passport but work that they have found (a paid job).

    I think that community projects should be carried out in the areas. People that live there, no matter their colour or creed, should work together on something like a communal gardens. I found that some of the best bonds people make are by doing something together. This would make people feel a part of something and this then gives them much more incentive to integrate. This is a solution to the problem, for a while at least.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote: »
    But then I think all citizens should perform a years national service.

    That`s a surprise.

    In some of your previous posts you appear to be very passionate in your condemnation of slavery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Replicant wrote: »
    I've always thought that immigrants should have to attend mandatory basic English lessons (paid for by the state though), just to aid integration.

    It used to be the case that immigrants could just pop down to their local college and get courses free, but the provision is being moved into forcing job seekers to have the courses instead.

    So now, instead of people who want to do the course getting free access we are forcing those who dont want it to do the course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think everyone should do a bit of voluntary or community work, but if its not actually voluntary then that defies the point and its slave labour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    It used to be the case that immigrants could just pop down to their local college and get courses free, but the provision is being moved into forcing job seekers to have the courses instead.

    So now, instead of people who want to do the course getting free access we are forcing those who dont want it to do the course.

    Indeed, it's preposterous.

    It's a laugh that they're harping on about intergration when they're cutting funding to ESOL and vocational/academic courses for foreign nationals (even to included EU citizens in some circumstances - where the sense in that is I'll never understand). I can't imagine much more alienating, exploitative and unhelpful than cutting provisions for immigrants to be intergrated socially and educationally whilst putting them out to work/"volunteer" to earn their citizenship.

    I can only assume ignorance in terms of the person who made the comment about people being invited over here to have babies and having passports "handed out" to them. To say that that is estranged from the mark is a huge understatement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote: »
    I don't see anything wrong in them doing community work if they don't have a job. I think people on JSA should do some too, it would give them experience, stop them being bored and maybe help get them a job.

    I dont think people should be forced into CS.
    However, I would agree if people aren't working they should be encouraged to participate in some community work- the level of benefits given out could reflect this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote: »
    That`s a surprise.

    In some of your previous posts you appear to be very passionate in your condemnation of slavery.

    Yeah, I am. But I don't consider something "slavery" if you are paid and given a choice as to what type of work you want to do and where you want to do it (by national service I don't mean the army).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is still slavery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote: »
    I don't see anything wrong in them doing community work if they don't have a job. I think people on JSA should do some too, it would give them experience, stop them being bored and maybe help get them a job.

    You mean work for their JSA?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    That is still slavery.

    Slavery is an enforced condition to work where you receive no wage. That is not what was being suggested by Carlito.
    Many countries have compulsary national service (some as many as 5 years) as it teaches discipline ways that schools and the like are lacking.

    You get to choose which service.
    I agree that it is a good idea but of all the services, which would you choose?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Slavery is an enforced condition to work where you receive no wage. That is not what was being suggested by Carlito.
    Many countries have compulsary national service (some as many as 5 years) as it teaches discipline ways that schools and the like are lacking.

    You get to choose which service.
    I agree that it is a good idea but of all the services, which would you choose?

    None. Work or go to prison is slavery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote: »
    In principle I don't see whats wrong with this proposal, as long as it was run properly and with dignity for the people involved. But then I think all citizens should perform a years national service.
    Does doing a job in the community not count as national service? Surely anyone doing any job, or providing any service, and paying taxes out of their earnings is helping the economy in some way, and therefore benefitting the nation? And incidentally, most of these immigrants are voluntarily doing the bullshit jobs that no-one else wants to do, so I see no benefit in this idea whatsoever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gordon Brown will damage the UK.

    And his proposal is stupid.

    However, people applying for asylum or ones waiting for a decision on citizenship should indeed be offered work experience in local volunteer organizations.
    If their citizenship is granted, it should be granted on the provision that the said people take english lessons (which should be provided for free as much as lessons on general culture and politics) and take a test at the end. If they pass and show conisderable effort to understand the UK as a country, then citizenship should be granted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ghost18 wrote: »
    Slavery is an enforced condition to work where you receive no wage.

    Not so.

    What if the individual doesn't want to do any of the jobs?
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