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Gordon Brown shows what he really thinks of working people

BillieTheBotBillieTheBot 🤖Posts: 8,660 Automated Account
Work for the Government? Then you can have a real-terms pay cut!

And people still look to this Scottish cunt to be the saviour of Labour and the left. He's as much of an apologist for the Fat Cat as Blair is, and both are a disgrace to the hard working state workers in this country.

I hope every single public sector worker goes on strike about this, because you can bet your bottom dollar that the MPs and Civil Service fat cats won't be getting a pay cut.

Brown is scum, just like the rest of them. Anyone who votes for him is a moron.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You really are a moron Kermit.

    I find it is a good idea to read an article before you link to it:

    Some of the differing pay rises

    Nurses: 1.9%

    Prison officers: 2.5%

    Senior Civil Service: 1.4%

    With the latter being the lowest of the quoted rises other than GPs, who get nothing.....

    If you were being paid £25000 a year, then the difference between a 1.9% rise and a 2.5% rise is £150.

    He is trying to keep inflation stable and avoid government deficits and this doesn't seem such an unreasonable way to do it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course, he could get similar effects by not employing so many management consultants...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    He is trying to keep inflation stable and avoid government deficits and this doesn't seem such an unreasonable way to do it.


    By cutting wages for nurses?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course, he could get similar effects by not employing so many management consultants...

    Aren't you one of them?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lol
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    You really are a moron Kermit.

    I find it is a good idea to read an article before you link to it:

    Some of the differing pay rises

    Nurses: 1.9%

    Prison officers: 2.5%

    Senior Civil Service: 1.4%

    With the latter being the lowest of the quoted rises other than GPs, who get nothing.....

    If you were being paid £25000 a year, then the difference between a 1.9% rise and a 2.5% rise is £150.

    He is trying to keep inflation stable and avoid government deficits and this doesn't seem such an unreasonable way to do it.
    Oh I can think of plenty of more reasonable ways to do it.

    Nurses get paid next to fuck all to start with. The last think they (and everybody else) need is getting below-inflation pay rises.

    Britain is an immensely rich country. There is a lot of money around-certainly to give workers decent pay rises.

    This is an unnaceptable disgrace. Kermit is spot on about that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think nurses get awful pay at all Aladdin. My best friend is a nurse and she does all right, better than me and most other people our age. They also get paid (a bursary) to train. Not saying everything is rosy but it does irritate when people always bring up the case of the 'low paid' nurse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Oh I can think of plenty of more reasonable ways to do it.

    Nurses get paid next to fuck all to start with. The last think they (and everybody else) need is getting below-inflation pay rises.

    Britain is an immensely rich country. There is a lot of money around-certainly to give workers decent pay rises.

    This is an unnaceptable disgrace. Kermit is spot on about that.

    Could you try to be less of a simpleton please?

    As kat suggests, nurses are in fact getting paid rather well, at least £19k for standard adult nurses according to the NHS website. i am sure the average is over £20k. This is not 'fuck all' by any reasonable standard.

    If the government is short on money then something has to give, the alternative is to raise money from private sector workers who are just as hard working etc etc as those in the public sector.

    Why does working for the public sector or being a nurse automatically mean that you must never have your wages cut?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    Could you try to be less of a simpleton please?

    As kat suggests, nurses are in fact getting paid rather well, at least £19k for standard adult nurses according to the NHS website. i am sure the average is over £20k. This is not 'fuck all' by any reasonable standard.
    Do you live in London? Do you have hopes of one day owning your own home? Do you have to use public transport on a daily basis?

    Because many of those nurses do. And believe me, 20k is fuck all.

    More to the point, this time next year they would be worse off than they already are thanks to a pay rise that is below inflation.
    If the government is short on money then something has to give, the alternative is to raise money from private sector workers who are just as hard working etc etc as those in the public sector.
    Oh there are plenty other alternatives: tax the rich or cut military spending to name but two.
    Why does working for the public sector or being a nurse automatically mean that you must never have your wages cut?
    Because they are providing an essential service to the nation and because the nation itself is not bankrupt.

    You don't run the NHS for profits. You run it to offer a service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What does London have to do with it? This is about the whole country not just one city.

    20K may be "fuck all" to you, but most people where I come from earn less than that and still manage to live. Maybe you and your friends can look down on it as "fuck all" but if I was making 20K I would be pretty pleased to be honest as it's far more than I currently make.

    Yeah of course you couldn't buy a house in London on 20K but neither could anyone, nurse, or cleaner, or anybody else.

    You can buy houses around here with a partner if you both made 20K.

    How much would you propose nurses are paid?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm proposing they, and everyone else, is paid above the rate of inflation so they don't actually become worse off as time goes by.

    Is it such a revolutionary concept to grasp?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I'm proposing they, and everyone else, is paid above the rate of inflation so they don't actually become worse off as time goes by.

    Is it such a revolutionary concept to grasp?

    Is it necessary to be so stupendously patronising? Or does that come from earning so much you can write off a salary of 20K as 'fuck all'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Do you live in London? Do you have hopes of one day owning your own home? Do you have to use public transport on a daily basis?

    Because many of those nurses do. And believe me, 20k is fuck all.


    Aladdin wrote: »
    You don't run the NHS for profits. You run it to offer a service.


    Those two statements seem to me to be incompatible.

    IF the second was true then surely (and logically ? ) the former would not matter. :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    Is it necessary to be so stupendously patronising? Or does that come from earning so much you can write off a salary of 20K as 'fuck all'?
    No it comes from a friend who is a nurse and it's been living on a canal boat that belongs to a friend on a cheap rent because she can't afford anything else.

    I'm sure there are people in London who earn less than 20k. That doesn't mean 20k is not a shit wage- it is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote: »
    Those two statements seem to me to be incompatible.

    IF the second was true then surely (and logically ? ) the former would not matter. :chin:
    How on earth do you work that out? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    No it comes from a friend who is a nurse and it's been living on a canal boat that belongs to a friend on a cheap rent because she can't afford anything else.

    I'm sure there are people in London who earn less than 20k. That doesn't mean 20k is not a shit wage- it is.

    Does she mind living on a boat?

    I know rents in London are ridiculous but there are places out there. My sister has been renting there for years, on a wage less than 20K.

    20K probably is a shit wage for London if a person gets the tube everywhere and doesn't want to live in a houseshare, but a lot of places in the country, 20K is a good wage. Anyway that's down to opinion.

    I didn't mean to distract from the point of the topic. I just took issue with the whinging about the "shit wages" of a nurse which are much more than many other jobs, including care assistants, most of whom only get minimum wage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im on about 9,000 a year

    so 20k would be mint
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because some people are earning even less (which is a disgrace) it doesn't mean that getting a pitiful rise that is well below the inflation on a wage of 20k is any more acceptable.

    I feel you're getting the wrong end of the stick and barking up the wrong tree.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because there are people who receive poorer pay than nurses doesn't mean that nurses aren't underpaid. We also have to remember that a nurse has skills and training that a HCA [to continue with those two examples] doesn't have - surely that should be recognised and rewarded.

    As Aladdin said, the issue is that nurses (and other workers) are being given an increase below inflation and that is really worrying and indicative of how unvalued those sector workers really are when it comes down to it. It's a disgrace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny how everyone mentions nurses and no-one complains about how the real drivers of this country's public services, the civil service, are grossly underpaid.

    Of course I could be biased....:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Just because some people are earning even less (which is a disgrace) it doesn't mean that getting a pitiful rise that is well below the inflation on a wage of 20k is any more acceptable.

    .

    So everyone should be getting paid the massive salary that you are earning to piss about on this internet site should they? (At least disproves the notion that private workers are necessarily more productive than public sector workers?)

    To the vast majority of people in this country, and in the world, 20k is an excellent salary, and when you are earning that much, a real terms pay cut of little more than 100 pounds isn't going to make a heap of difference.

    Sometimes employers, be they private or public, have difficulties which mean the staff may have to accept some cuts.

    Being a nurse does not give you a divine right to be isolated from the real world.

    And childishly simplistic replies about cutting defence spending or the classic dumbass comment of 'tax the rich' aren't going to do you any favours.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    You really are a moron Kermit.

    I find it is a good idea to read an article before you link to it:

    Some of the differing pay rises

    Nurses: 1.9%

    Prison officers: 2.5%

    Senior Civil Service: 1.4%

    Even the biggest pay rise there is below the rate of inflation. Which means its a real-terms pay cut, like I said, numpty. Learn to read, will ya?

    Oh, and regarding inflation, we both know what is driving inflation: City bonuses being invested in the property market. If we do something about that rather than giving hard working state workers a pay cut the results will be far more noticeable.
    briggi wrote:
    Just because there are people who receive poorer pay than nurses doesn't mean that nurses aren't underpaid.

    Hurrah for that.

    Senior nurses can earn a fairly decent wage, about £35k for someone with 25 years experience as a ward sister, but for what they do the pay only just covers their worth.

    £20,000 a year salary is nearly £7,000 a year below the average wage in this country, so to start claiming that £20k is a canny packet is quite clearly ludicrous. Lots of other people earn less, such as care assistants, and that is a disgrace too, but paying nurses less doesn't make it fair.

    This goes far beyond what nurses are paid, though. Soldiers start on about £14k. Many clerical staff in the civil service will be on £10k at most. This pay cut has more to do with the fact that Brown has bankrupted the Government, and the fact that he doesn't want his darling Fat Cat backers to pay for the inflation they've created, that anything to do with trying to curb inflation. Giving someone on £12k what they are owed isn't going to make inflation unmanageable- allowing the Fat Cat bonuses to get spent on BTL property investment is what's making inflation above target.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh dear

    "because you can bet your bottom dollar that the MPs and Civil Service fat cats won't be getting a pay cut."

    Which is directly contradicted by the article you linked to which clearly states that senior civil servants ARE getting a pay cut.

    What analysis have you been researching to come to the cocnlusion that city bonuses and BTL (which you seem to mention in every thread, bizarrely) are driving inflation. Sources of info please?

    Also your comparison to the average wage in this country is rather hilarious given that on previous threads (some time ago) you were absolutely vehement with the idea that the average salry was a meaningless indicator with no value to sensible discussion. Changed your mind now?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    So everyone should be getting paid the massive salary that you are earning to piss about on this internet site should they? (At least disproves the notion that private workers are necessarily more productive than public sector workers?)
    Meaaaaaaow!

    photo21.jpg
    To the vast majority of people in this country, and in the world, 20k is an excellent salary
    Utter bollocks
    and when you are earning that much, a real terms pay cut of little more than 100 pounds isn't going to make a heap of difference.
    Why don't you tell that to the many people who struggle to make ends meet? They'll sure be happier to be shown they were in denial of their luxurious wealthy living standards.
    Sometimes employers, be they private or public, have difficulties which mean the staff may have to accept some cuts.
    Even if that was the case, you tend look after the poorest paid employees and ensure that they receive the maximum rise possible.

    And when we're talking about essential workers in a profession that is always struggling to recruit new employees (and no fucking wonder!) you come to realise that there is far more to the NHS than balance books and that nurses should never receive below inflation rate rises.
    And childishly simplistic replies about cutting defence spending or the classic dumbass comment of 'tax the rich' aren't going to do you any favours.......
    You would say that...

    What exactly is the problem with it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »

    Utter bollocks


    And when we're talking about essential workers in a profession that is always struggling to recruit new employees (and no fucking wonder!)

    a) your living in a fantasy land if you don't think 20k is a lot of money, and if you really think that 20k isn't a lot of money at the international level then you really have lost all perspective.

    b) You're wrong

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4545440.stm

    Nursing courses are normally oversubscribed as far as I know.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    we're talking about essential workers in a profession that is always struggling to recruit new employees

    I don't know about the whole country, but in my local area, there are far more newly qualified nurses than there are jobs at the moment. Whether that is a temporary thing I don't know, but I haven't heard of a recruitment problem regarding nurses.

    Obviously the issue of what a person thinks a decent wage is will be subjective. Around here, 20k is a decent wage, whatever you may think about it! In London it possibly isn't, depending on your living circumstances and expectations. What do you consider a decent living wage Aladdin? Out of interest?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    a) your living in a fantasy land if you don't think 20k is a lot of money, and if you really think that 20k isn't a lot of money at the international level then you really have lost all perspective.
    What's got the international level got to do with anything?

    People on 20k will struggle in big towns and cities where rent, council tax and transport costs are high. Fact.

    You go and try to buy a property on 20K. See what you get.
    b) You're wrong

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4545440.stm

    Nursing courses are normally oversubscribed as far as I know.....
    That'd be why they're shipping them from abroad by the bucketload then.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    I don't know about the whole country, but in my local area, there are far more newly qualified nurses than there are jobs at the moment. Whether that is a temporary thing I don't know, but I haven't heard of a recruitment problem regarding nurses.

    Obviously the issue of what a person thinks a decent wage is will be subjective. Around here, 20k is a decent wage, whatever you may think about it! In London it possibly isn't, depending on your living circumstances and expectations. What do you consider a decent living wage Aladdin? Out of interest?
    I'd consider a decent living that in which people can afford to rent a place which is not a shithole, pay all their bills including council tax, transport etc and not be left totally skint.

    I would also consider a decent living that in which you might have a chance one day of buying your own place. If you are on 20k you'd better find yourself a rich partner because you will never buy one on such wage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That would be to do with funding for training.

    Not struggling to attract people to nursing.

    I earn a lot less than 20k and I do OK. Even if you live in a London, if you earn 20k then you are better off in financial terms than me. So I don't see how 20k can ever be viewed as a bad wage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IF it's unclear....
    A 20k per annum wage in London equates to just over 16k per annum in Walsall ( I use the 2 as examples as I worked in both).
    When I applied for my first job in London, I asked for £25k pa to be able to live there. And they obliged. (Retrospectively, I should have asked for more ;))

    Giving a raise below inflation rate indicates a weak economy.
    So the thing Tony Blair said this week in Parliament about Gordon Brown making UK's economy one of the strongest in major countries in the world, does not make sense.
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