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Have you ever heard of the Nanking Massacre?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Guys, I'm not suggesting that the Holocaust and Nanking are on a par.

    Just like Stalin, the actions of the japanese are overlooked and yet they carried out some atrocious acts. Whilst it is quite correct that children are taught about the actions of the Nazis, it then becomes easy to suggest that they were isolated and only in similar circumstances could such things happen again. Not true.

    What the other acts during WW2 (and since I might add) teach us is that inhumanity towards our fellow man lies within us all and not just Germans, or even Europeans. Our children need to understand that because otherwise it will be too late when WW3 kicks off in the arabian peninsula.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I have heard of it.

    It is not just this incident, but the whole history of WW2 from a British perspective is focused on Germany rather than Japan, for reasons that are fairly obvious I think......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shy Boy - the reason why you probably didn't learn about it at school is because it happened before Japan entered WW2 (or even before the war had started in Europe) as it was late 1937 - early 1938. Therefore almost 2 years before the war started.

    I didn't do the second world war at school but did learn about the causes and consequences - hence why we learnt about it - but only then skirted around it.

    Secondly you can't learn everything in school about history as there is farr to much - instead you learn the skills that are necessary in order to look at any point in history and learn for yourself. Such as empathy, critical annalysis and looking at sources and where they come from.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    Yes I have heard of it.

    It is not just this incident, but the whole history of WW2 from a British perspective is focused on Germany rather than Japan, for reasons that are fairly obvious I think......

    It was the same during the war too, many of the people who fought in the east still feel let down by this country and our lack of "interest" in their suffering.

    To argue that it didn't affect the UK as much is a cop out, especially when you consider how the POWs were treated by the Japanese.

    I have to declare a personal interest here, my Dad's Uncle died in a POW camp and the stories which I heard from his friends have clouded me ever since. I would recommend a book called "Banzai You Bastards", if you are interested.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But in historical terms the war against Germany was more important (at least to the UK, though its arguable that Japan was of more interest for much of the Empire).

    That's not to say any study of WW2 shouldn't cover it, same as it should cover the fighting against the Italians under O'Connor, and that study needs to go further than just the atomic bombs (even if only to explain the context in which they were used - ie suicidal Japanese defence and a fear that surviving prisoners would be murdered if the war was prolonged).

    But given that there's only a limited time on the curriculum there does need to be hard choices made
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was the same during the war too, many of the people who fought in the east still feel let down by this country and our lack of "interest" in their suffering.

    To argue that it didn't affect the UK as much is a cop out, especially when you consider how the POWs were treated by the Japanese.

    I have to declare a personal interest here, my Dad's Uncle died in a POW camp and the stories which I heard from his friends have clouded me ever since. I would recommend a book called "Banzai You Bastards", if you are interested.

    If you're interested in the Far East and given we've already mentioned the redoubatble Flashman I'd recommend George MacDonald Fraser's 'Quartered Safe Out Here' about his experiences in the Border Regiment in Burma towards the end of the War.

    http://www.amazon.com/Quartered-Safe-Out-Here-Recollection/dp/0002726874
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    How come I've never heard of it before?:(
    Yep, I know of it as the Rape of Nanking. As I recall, some Chinese woman who wrote a famous book about it died a few years back. I looked into at that time because it came up in a discussion at Mil.com about whether WW2 could truly be called a 'World War', as war in the Pacific was a separate issue.

    In Nanking, the Japanese soldiers certainly demonstrated their warrior philosophy that only those who gave up their lives resisting the enemy should be treated as human beings. Kind of a Catch 22.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I only found out about this today. I felt like I was going to be sick. Also known as "The Rape of Nanking". Going through education, there was shedloads of stuff on world war 2 and the Nazis. Hitler is a synonym for evil because of what happened. But I can't, and wouldn't want to, think of any single act worse than what happened at Nanking.

    How come I've never heard of it before? If we want to remember humanities mistakes so we don't make them again, maybe we should take account of the consequences. 100,000 - 300,000 dead, how many were tortured, or....

    I can't believe I've never heard of it before. :(

    Oddly enough I would have heard of it being chinese. The systematic rape, murder, mutilation, looting and burning of an entire city over a period of a over a month kind of sticks in your mind.

    The stuff that happened there easily outdid whatever the Nazis did in pure brutality and savagery. Door to door searchs for females, who were gang raped, mutilated and then killed, ranging from infants to grandmothers. People being burnt alive, used for live bayonet practice, buried alive and worse... the list goes on...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just ordering a copy of Iris Chang's book; The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II. I dunno, it's one of those subjects where even though it's so horrible, when you've uncovered a scrap you need to know, need to understand what happened.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It'll be enlightening, if rather an unpleasant read.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also, I suspect, one of those events that some Chinese politicians might prefer to be forgotten, or at least not to be reminded of it, with China, along with India, becoming a major power. They would probably want relationships with Japan to be as smooth as possible, and anyone raising the Nanking issue would be seen as vexacious.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The name change isn't a real name change, it's only the change in how the characters are scribed into roman characters :)

    ETA that's supposed to be quoting Shyboy's earlier post that i've only just seen.

    Um, not so sure about the Chinese politicians wanting it to be forgotten... I think they want an official apology. I can't remember exactly, it was dangerous to put forward any political opinions whilst i was in China so only heard the odd snippets.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uncle Joe wrote: »
    Also, I suspect, one of those events that some Chinese politicians might prefer to be forgotten, or at least not to be reminded of it, with China, along with India, becoming a major power. They would probably want relationships with Japan to be as smooth as possible, and anyone raising the Nanking issue would be seen as vexacious.

    Other way round I think. Japan wants to forget, China wants to keep reminding them of it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I asked my friend who's a history bof and is doing a degree in History (he specialises in Vikings, mind you) and he'd never heard of it...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I did some 'some'. They might be in the minority, but, just as some black/African voices will argue that calls for reparations for slavery are unrealistic, there will almost certainly be some people in China who see a pre-occupation over crimes from so long ago as obstructing the future.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uncle Joe wrote: »
    Well, I did some 'some'. They might be in the minority, but, just as some black/African voices will argue that calls for reparations for slavery are unrealistic, there will almost certainly be some people in China who see a pre-occupation over crimes from so long ago as obstructing the future.

    Then again, the Chinese government is viciously nationalist, so I think the propaganda minister will try and remind people as oft as possible.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Yup.

    And now some Japanese are trying to deny it, so we can all have an Asian version of Holocaust denial. WOO!

    I didn't read the rest of this topic, so it might already have been mentioned. Either way, that can only go furthur to damage Sino-Japanese relations. You can see why the Chinese are fed up when they won't even admit thier crimes...
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