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Comments
Do they catch the same individual fish every time or something? Because otherwise that has absolutely nothing in similar with the relationship between a person and their pet cat.
You really are scrapping the bottom of the barrel now.
Thats not established. I don't know how I'd react if someone stole my savings through an elaborate scam, firstly since I don't have any savings, and because its never happened to me.
But in general I don't really think people should be sent to jail unless they have perpetrated violence against another human being, with some exceptions. I'm not really a big fan of jail generally.
Actually I do, and not just for a pet cat. But I consider human beings to be a higher priority, especially when deciding how to deal with an act that has already occurred and cannot be undone.
Well here are some similarities which I think are significant:
1) That individual fish occupies a large part of the persons thought
2) They have a strong emotional bond with it
3) They have a great respect for it
4) They enjoy physical contact with it, the ability to interact with it, and observing it
5) They would feel very sad/angry if somebody else killed or tortured it
6) They know much about it, its habits, its lifestyle, what food it likes to eat, etc
7) They invest a lot of time, effort, and money into it
You don't obviously. However, you are not seriously suggesting that someone can have the same sort of relationship with a fish as they can with an animal that humans can relate to, cuddle and interact with (e.g. a cat), are you?
So much of an emotional bond in fact, that they continually inflict pain on it? On different individuals of that species in fact, not the same one.
Are you completely mad?
If you're seriously saying that the emotional bond that someone has with a fish (not even an individual specific fish), that they get pleasure out of hurting is the same as the sort of relationship I have with my cat, then you're fucked in the head mate.
Has anyone argued otherwise? No, its another straw man.
Learn how to debate son.
Clutching at straws, mate. Either that or you're a candidate for a diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder.
[edit]
Actually what you're describing there is obsession. A qualitatively different thing to what is being discussed.
[edit again] So much so that they want to stick a hook in its mouth? Lovely.
Well I am seriously suggesting this, for the reasons I've outlined.
The issue of "causing it pain" is an interesting one - most of these anglers argue that catching a fish in such a manner does not cause it pain (because fish are used to having sharp objects in their mouth, and struggling for survivial for the majority of their time, they have less sensitive pain receptors, etc).
What is interesting here is that you are denying the feelings that other people hold towards animals which you have no experience of, whilst you have been criticisizing people for doing exactly the same thing to you. Thats usually known as hypocrisy.
Blagsta, it is you who needs to learn how to debate: i.e. responding to people's points rather than arbitrarily dismissing them because you disagree, and then levelling personal insults at them.
You're in need of help mate.
Yes, they would, wouldn't they?
No, I'm not. I'm pointing out that what you're describing is not the same thing as what I'm describing.
Errrr...I am responding to your points. As are others. You however choose to ignore those points in favour of constructing a straw man.
[edit]
Oh and my comment about personality disorder? Flip, yes. An insult? No, not really. If one of my clients at work claimed that they had meaningful emotional relationships with fish and that they tortured them (your words) as part of that relationship, I'd be on the blower to the CMHT for a diagnosis.
Tell me why you think the example I have given does not compare to having a pet cat.
I already have mate, I already have. Have a look if you like.
Because they put a hook in its mouth? I've already explained why they don't think that causes the fish harm or pain.
Yes mate, that's the entire crux of my argument. :rolleyes:
Give it up, it's boring now.
Well listen, could you actually tell me why you think they are not comparable, because I can't see it. Maybe its a problem with my computer or something, but I haven't seen your response, other than the fact that they put a hook in its mouth, which I've responded to.
carlito is your point of view in earnest? I have to say I find it very hard to believe that you hold those views, so have to assume that you're playing devil's advocate in order to extract some kind of indefinable definitions of "right" and "wrong" re: animal cruelty that none of us will be able to give to your satisfaction. You either get it, or you don't. It's very tired now, as [I imagine] are everyone's fingers.
If you have genuinely been trying to extract that information and understand the mindset then I reckon you could've probably gone about it a little more productively. Certainly a little less of the swinging fists and animal-rights-are-piffling-nonsense-compared-to-MY-concerns attitude would've made a difference.
If you're too lazy to read my argument, then tough shit.
Do you actually believe being obsessed with a certain species of fish and handling specimens from that species when fishing them out is similar in any way to a relationship between humans and their pet cats?
God almighty. Where to start? :shocking:
Time waster. :banghead:
Just 'cos you're too lazy to read my posts, no need to chuck yer toys out yer pram luv.
For example, my cat Zulu was a proper attention seeker. When my dad read the paper at the dinner table, and Zulu wanted some love, he'd jump on the table and lie in the middle of the newspaper. He knew where to go to get love and affection.
Never heard of a fish in a river swim right up to the bank when a specific angler arrived.
Innit. Our cat gets behind the telly and stereo where he knows he's not allowed (lots of wires) if he wants attention.
No, I'm talking about individual fish, which are given names (e.g. minky (a carp), the traveller (a barbel living in the River Ouse I think), and sought after specifically by some anglers, often for 15 or 20 years. So an emotional bond does exist between that specific organism and a human does exist. I think thats comparable to a pet cat for the reasons I gave before.
So its an emotional connection based on not seeing a mythical fish for 15 or 20 years? LOL!
Good one, you really had me going for a minute there.
No, based on regular repeated capture over 15 to 20 years. If you're going to accuse me of being too lazy to read your posts (which I have done and can't find a response) at least be consistent and read mine.
You didn't say anything about this mythical fish being caught repeatedly.
"For instance, quite a number of anglers become obsessed with a particular individual wild fish (usually biggies) and spend much of their time trying to catch it repeatedly. They form a relationship with it (many wild fish have names and people mourn them when they die or are killed)"
(From the last page)
And they're not mythical, because they exist. Again trying to ridicule somebody else's feelings because you have no understanding of them.
Perhaps now you'll do me the courtesy of pointing out where you responded to my point, because otherwise I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to debate with you.