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Comments
:yeees:
So now it's OK for a gypsy to steal from a supermarket? Ridiculous.
I don't give a toss who steals from supermarkets tbh, they don't have to be a gypsy.
Whys that?
Absolutely and completely absurd. I was listening to your points and assumed them to be valid, but that kind of opinion is dangerous and stupid.
Well we'd have to start a thread about property rights and the nature of capitalism for me to go into any great detail.
Why's that then?
Oh yeah, and I'd have to admit I'm ever so slightly on the wind up...but only slightly.
Someone championing gypsies and new age travellers doesn't have a problem with shoplifting. Doesn't really help your case.
Help my case? LOL!
You don't half come out with some toss.
If they want to live the way they do, that's fine but they do it on societys terms or not at all.. thats how it works for everyone!
Why can't I walk around in public naked all the time? I am born without clothes and it is natural - why should I be forced to conform to it?
I'll tell you why - because that's how society works - not everyone gets what they want - thats tough but its how it works.
Fail to see how I am being pathetic - Benefits and Social help are not there to subsidise a lifestyle of a persons choice - They are there to provide the bare essentials and keep people off the streets etc wherever possible which should be ideally the cheapest and fairest way to use the tax payers money - is that not correct?
Yes until it improves - as stated plenty of times before, why should they get special treatment at our expense?
Well i don't know about anyone else, but i wouldn't have a problem with you doing that
Sorry am i allowed to say stuff like that in here?!
I find it amazing that my opinion can be written of as racist because upon consolidating the experiences of myself, friends, family, and internet posters, a common thread of unpleasant experiences has surfaced.
I have gone out of my way to explicitly state that I don't for one second think that gypsies are intrinsically criminal or violent, and that I suspect that there are a number of sound sociological theories which would go a long way to explaining the aforementioned observations.
If being critical of traits which appear to be disproportionately prevalent in a given social group is construed as small-minded and bigoted - even after expounding the reasons for such thought - then i'm really at a loss of whether I want to post here anymore.
If society is unjust? What then? Just accept it?
I think you should be able to as it goes. Different societies have very different attitudes to nakedness. I wold prefer it if we had a more relaxed attitude to bodies, I think it would make for a less messed up world.
That's not telling me why, that's just saying "it is how it is".
Being born into a culture with hundreds of years of history is not a "lifestyle choice" - which is why I said you were being pathetic. Your analogy is completely off beam.
That's one interpretation, certainly.
I'm not arguing for anyone to get special treatment. I'm arguing for everyone to get just and fair treatment.
You seem to think that people should just put up with injustice. If everyone thought that way, we'd still be sending children up chimneys.
Close the door on your way out.
Haha, it'll take more than your trademark curt one-liners.
Make yer mind up! Flounce or don't, who gives a fuck.
No, but breaking the law and upsetting other citizens isn't the way to go about fixing those injustices is it? Two wrongs don't make a right.
I agree - but the point I am trying to make is that we can't, because that is how it stands in our society at the moment. Until societys principles on it are changed then it is our duty as citizens to follow it. Surely that is the how the whole underpinnings of a civilized society works
OK, well maybe explain that next time instead of writing it off with quite a provocative word
Fair point with the analogy being off beam, but saying they were born "into a culture" is not an excuse for breaking the laws - If that were the case then society would not evolve and become (in theory) more civilized as time goes on.
Please explain to me how them being emergency sheltered and placed on a housing list with the rest of the poor people waiting is not just and fair?
Now who's analogy is off beam...
RE the point you are making - Injustice in many aspects is down to opinion.
I think it's an injustice if a private land owner or farmer has their land wrecked by (what may well be the minority) of modern travellers.. don't you?
Curt non-post #7892.
Blaggy, you're really cutting deep now.
So the suffragettes were unjustified? Or civil rights protests in the southern states?
So we're back to just putting up with things?
If you had read the thread and the links posted, you would know that gypsies and Irish travellers are not a a lifestyle choice. Its not up to me to explain what's already been covered on the thread.
So if your culture and way of life was outlawed, you'd just accept it would you?
On the contrary, its exactly how society evolves. Rights are never willingly granted by the powers that be, they have to be fought for. A basic knowledge of history should tell you this.
Because I don't think anyone being housed in a shitty B&B or hostel and having to wait years to get decent housing is just and fair.
In what way? You're arguing that we should quietly acquiesce to injustice and never take action to make things better.
Well, its contingent on where you sit in society, yes.
Depends. If that land is not used for anything else and the travellers have nowhere else to go and are allowed time to clear up when they leave, then no, its not an injustice. What is an injustice is that vast amounts of land are owned by a minority of people...[insert something about the enclosures acts here].
Quit with the melodrama, no one gives a shit.
Top work Blagsta!
I'll see how it is in the morning - but even if the thre4ad is closed I'de suggest people at least spend time reading the threads posted.
And if the majority of the problems many of you talk about are only associated with illegal camps, does it not make sense to allow the travellers planning or to encourage councils to provide autorised sites?
Here in South Wiltshire and there are a number of autorised sites, several not far from where I live including one in the neighbouring village. Although the land and amenities are provided by the council, the travellers living on the site pay for them.
The kids from these sites are then able to go to school, have clean running water and sanitation. The travellers have access to the local surgery etc etc.
It's quite clear from this thread that although many of you have experiences ith travellers, not many of you actually understand them, their culture, their history and their wants.
Not really foolish if we don't know - most people base their opinions on thier own experience rather than on statistics.
Seems fair enough to me - as long as it doesn't cost disproportionatly(Sp) more to tax payers than it would to put them in shelters and house them normally!
Yeah I agree with that part. Although it seems irrational to make claims such as 'oh about 90% of them'. A statistic which is your opinion and you one which you have no proof whatsoever to back it up.
Where have I said about 90% of "them" !?
This site has taught me how stupid generalisations are. People from all walks getting on when in the street they would give each other the time of day. Apearances and backgrounds mean fuck all on here, it's your beleifs and what you have to say that count. It's waht my sigs about.
What is so wrong with people in genuine need, recieving more from the taxman than they give?