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Circumcision

Girl-From-MarsGirl-From-Mars Mega PosterPosts: 2,822
i was just having a look at www.the-penis.com that lonelyy-in-life recommended to someone a while ago... and ive come across loads of articles about circumcision, this one in particular is quite disturbing (it shows photos of a baby's circumcision, its not particularly clear or detailed, however it does contain a written commentery interspersed into the text of the surgery, so dont look if this might upset you).
http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm

and im actually getting quite angry with humans in general, in particular the medical profession.

there isnt actualy any real reason for circumcision that i can see, apart from religious purposes.
Outside of the Jewish community, where it’s a religious rite, circumcision was practically unheard of in America until 1870, when Lewis Sayre, M.D., claimed to have cured a 5-year-old boy of paralysis by stretching out his foreskin and snipping it off. For the next two decades, Dr. Sayre and his associates crusaded for circumcision, claiming it could cure hip-joint disease, epilepsy, hernia, convulsions, elephantiasis, poor eyesight, tuberculosis, and rectal prolapse, among other things. This was all disproved, of course, and circumcision would probably have vanished from the American medical scene had its backers not found a compelling new way to sell it: as a cure for masturbation.

victorians believed masturbation to be the cause of problems like blindness or insanity, so they thought by removing the foreskin, all of this, plus other diseases would be prevented.

this comment in particular makes me quite sick with anger and how someone could actually believe this... ".” In 1888, John Harvey Kellogg, M.D., of cereal fame, summed up the medical profession’s opinion and gave justification for the next 60 years of foreskin removal. “A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind.""

when they realised it wasnt curing masturbation, the uncircumcised penis then became associated with african americans, which is partly where the "unclean" notion came from, because of racial prejudice.

the penis is self cleaning, the foreskin IS there for a reason, and the build up of smegma isnt gonna cause cancer of anything, its all a myth. smegma is there to help keep the glans lubricated.

“Penile cancer is extremely rare-less than one case for every 100,000 men,” adds Dr. Altschul. “It’s preposterous to even suggest that because we have some minuscule risk of disease, we should cut off the foreskin of every little boy.”

“Breast cancer in women is common,” says Dr. Denniston, “more common than all the purported health risks of the foreskin combined. Does that justify cutting off all breasts at puberty?”

i think thats a good point. and circumcision is performed without anaesthesia regularly on newborn babies, not even a local anaesthetic. i think thats barbaric.

there are lots of stories about how adults have had sexual experiences before circumcision, and rated, on a scale of one to 10, the pleasure at around 11 or 12 (!), but after circumcision it drops dramatically to 3 or 4. this is because a protective layer of keratin (toughened skin) builds up over the glans to protect it from friction against clothes, and other things to cause sensitivity and pain.

if circumcision is to be performed for medical purposes, then so be it. but i think this shouldnt occur before the age of 10, and as the penis doesnt stop developing until late puberty, then why not wait until then? (unless it is causing a problem, with urination or something similar.)

i really cant see how circumcision is still such a common practice in america, with no medical benefits identified that can be logically and medically explained satisfactorily.


what does everyone else think about circumcision? are you or your partner circumcised? do you prefer being with a circumcised or an uncircumcised male? why? has anyone been circumcised after having sexual experiences as an uncircumcised male? has anyone chosen to have their son circumcised (it not being a common practice in the UK.. people in the US, id value your opinions too), if so, why, or why not? would you have your son circumcised in the future if you gave birth to a boy?

sorry this post has been so long but i dont remember it being discussed like this before, and ive got interested in it now!!

Burn baby burn!

[This message has been edited by Girl-From-Mars (edited 18-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Girl-From-Mars (edited 18-04-2001).]

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Girl-From-Mars:
    what does everyone else think about circumcision? are you or your partner circumcised? do you prefer being with a circumcised or an uncircumcised male? why? has anyone been circumcised after having sexual experiences as an uncircumcised male? has anyone chosen to have their son circumcised (it not being a common practice in the UK.. people in the US, id value your opinions too), if so, why, or why not? would you have your son circumcised in the future if you gave birth to a boy?

    <IMG alt="image" alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt; sounds like the end of a Kilroy program asking for audience partiipants...lol
    there isnt actualy any real reason for circumcision that i can see, apart from religious purposes.

    When I was 16 / 17 I had a lot of problems with my wedding tackle, which didn't help my head at all, I was in a lot of pain becuase it was like a tight foreskin but not quite I can't really remember what they called it, but I had a circumcission and have never had the problem since. There are more reasons than cosmetic reasons for foreskin removal, and I can testify personally that they do work.
    Al

    ~ If you can see the beauty of whatyou aspire to, it doesn't matter if you achieve it all. Simply to aspire is no mean achievement ~
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I was just born that way (am I odd? heh) I don't believe kids should get circumsied unless its be medical benefit...

    .. and now I've run out of things to say..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would be more concerned about the mutilation of female circumcision

    j9
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by j9j9:
    I would be more concerned about the mutilation of female circumcision

    j9

    You make an excellent point there, I remember god atleast 10 years ago seeing a documentary on BBC where an african tribe makes it ritual for all young girls... very frightening

    ~ If you can see the beauty of whatyou aspire to, it doesn't matter if you achieve it all. Simply to aspire is no mean achievement ~
  • Girl-From-MarsGirl-From-Mars Mega Poster Posts: 2,822
    lol luka, yeah you're right, i do sound like kilroy <IMG alt="image" alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/eek.gif"&gt; <IMG alt="image" alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt; but hey, it was late!

    im not doubting that in some cases circumcision does have medical benefits like you say luka, but i meant to say that i didnt think baby circumcision had any preventative benefits, and some of the doctors were misinformed thinking the foreskin is a redundant piece of skin.

    j9 there was a map showing the incidence of female circumcision too and where it had been outlawed, i didnt find any info on that site as such as it was called www.the-penis.com and the links were off there!! but ill find the link for the map.
    http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html

    its the second map on the page. basically a lot of african countries still practise female genital mutilation, some up to and above 75% of girls being mutilated <IMG alt="image" alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/frown.gif"&gt;

    Burn baby burn!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by j9j9:
    I would be more concerned about the mutilation of female circumcision

    j9


    Erm, sorry but what IS female circumcision? I've heard of it but never really understood what it is.
  • Girl-From-MarsGirl-From-Mars Mega Poster Posts: 2,822
    Originally posted by Chickadee:

    Erm, sorry but what IS female circumcision? I've heard of it but never really understood what it is.

    a "clitorectomy".... that probably makes it clearer!



    Burn baby burn!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Girl-From-Mars:
    a "clitorectomy".... that probably makes it clearer!

    EWWWWWWWWWWWW! What is it with your psots lately gfm??!! First the shrimp one *shudder* and now this *wince*!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Chickadee:

    Erm, sorry but what IS female circumcision? I've heard of it but never really understood what it is.

    It is a barbaric procedure carried out on innocent girls, supposedly to release them from sexual pleasure, thus ensuring fidelity within marriage!! It is most prevalent in the Middle East & Africa, but not unheard of (although illegal) within ethnic minority groups in the UK!!!

    Steeped in 3000 years of tradition, in fgm accepting communities, if a woman hasn't been mutilated she is considered to be "unclean" & is unlikely to be able to find a husband.


    I found the following paragraphs on various websites -
    It involves procedures which include the partial or total removal of the external female genital organs. The extent of genital cutting and stitching varies considerably from country to country. Very often the operation is performed by a lay-person with limited knowledge of anatomy and surgical techniques, and without the use of any anaesthesia, this often results in the frightened child moving around so that the extent of the cutting cannot accurately be controlled. http://www.ippf.org/fgm/

    I couldn't cut and paste from this website because the description of the third form of female genital mutilation is too disturbing http://www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/fgmintro.html

    I can't read any more about it, it's too upsetting.

    j9




    [This message has been edited by j9j9 (edited 18-04-2001).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I went on that site j9 - you're right that 3rd form of mutilation is just....awful <IMG alt="image" alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/frown.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    I don't beleive in the circumcision of babies either - it should be a matter of choice unless there is a medical benefit.

    Having said that, I do think that the circimcised penis is more aesthetically pleasing than many penises with foreskins - so if I was to have it done, it'd be for that reason only which is no worse than tattoos, piercings etc. Most accounts of men who are circumcised later in life is that there is no real disadvantage to them sexually to be without a foreskin. I did go for a period thinking I might get it done one day but my girlfriend has reassured me that my penis is "beautiful" ... hehehe ... and she should know 'cos she spends a lot of time down there! lol

    Female circumcision is barbaric. Period!
  • Girl-From-MarsGirl-From-Mars Mega Poster Posts: 2,822
    Originally posted by [email protected]:
    Female circumcision is barbaric. Period!

    yep i totally agree.

    i have nothing againt circumcision by choice later in life, or if there is a medical reason earlier in life, but not as a preventative measure for babies. ive read a number of sites now saying the foreskin has loads of nerve endings and the frenulum in particular is the most sensitive part of the penis sexually. which is usually removed during circumcision.

    i agree with you that some circumcised penises look better than ones with foreskins, i dont particularly like it when theres like loooads of foreskin lol, there's pics on a site linked to www.the-penis.com of varying sizes of foreskin, its not something i really thought about before, that they could be different sizes... but evidently they are.

    to me it seems like an uncircumcised penis is better for receiving pleasure from the comments of people on the various sites ive visited, and because the foreskin and frenulum are removed, and the glans develops a protective covering, which would reduce sensitivity surely? then some people say they like this because it means they can last longer to please their partners for longer. i guess theres pluses and minuses both ways.



    Burn baby burn!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sometimes it is right for a female to be circumsied though. but only for medical procedures. people looking on the clit site have been chatting here about some people have large clits, but sometimes they are to large and do need to be cut off as they are more male in look. normall they are cut so they are smaller, not totally cut off. i know you probably was saying that in your posts its ok if its for a proper reason, but thought id make it clear. also some girls can be born with large clits and testicals, so they both have to be removed to stop cancer forming.
  • Girl-From-MarsGirl-From-Mars Mega Poster Posts: 2,822
    lil i think you're talking out of your arse. cancer forming? have to cut clits off to prevent this?! whaaaaat???

    yes babies can be born with both male and female genitals, do you know how rare that is?? its called hermaphoditism (i think lol i dont know if thats the right word but i know if you have both male and female sex organs you're a hermaphrodite, not sure if that words right.)

    i think you're talking about tiny miniorities here. we were saying how barbaric female genital mutilation is, and my original post was to say theres no point in baby male circumcision which is also pretty awful IMO.

    Burn baby burn!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yea I learned about female circumcision in my socioligy class mostly people have never heard if it in the u.s. but well we had to watch a video on the whole serimony( i have no idea how to spell that word sorry) many girls actually left the class we didn't see anything to ewwy but still. I don't remember that much about it, J9 has said it all, but more people r learning about it which i think is good.

    I'm like a bird I'll only fly away. I don't know where my home is, I don't know where my soul is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can only muster a couple of words so here goes (i can't b doin with long posts) female circumcision = a discrace 2 the human race, thank yow and goonite........

    Who's name does God use in vain?
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