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What if an agency then feels its not in the best interests of the children to place them with a black couple? Is that OK?
Doesn't that happen already then, aren't Caucasian parents prevented from adopting children with BEM backgrounds in some places?
Here
Rubbish. People change religions all the time. Its a choice.
Dunno tbh.
Sexuality is a choice though. You are not born and raised knowing that you are going to be a homosexual. You make an active decision to be homosexual.
Everything apart from who your Family are and the genetic make-up of you is a choice.
Sorry, see edit.
Not true. Most gay people say that they knew they were gay from a very young age, before puberty.
Again, not true. I didn't get to choose what my name was, where I went to school, where I lived when I was a child, my parent's jobs etc.
Can we not get into that discussion in this thread.
That's different though isn't it? Its not refusing someone point blank.
People with strong religious beliefs don't.
Plenty of people change their sexuality all the time, but I wouldn't for a moment try to say that that means that everyone choses their sexuality. It deveops as part of them, as religion does for some.
No but your family made that choice. So it was still choice, was it not?
Yes, they may have known they were gay from a young but they still made an active decision to come out of the closet. You can not say that this is not true as ask any homosexual and they will honestly tell you that they made that choice.
How is it different? Homosexual couples aren't refused point blank, they are just not accepted by a few agencies, and are then given advice on how to persue things with a more suitable agency.
They do refuse pretty much point blank on the grounds of the colour of skin and ethnicity. Unfortunately the entire world is still riddled with racism but most just mask over it with false comments and reasons.
When they say "We have deemed you unsuitable to adopt this child" it isn't because you weren't unsuitable for any other reason other than the colour of the childs skin in comparison to yours.
Yes, they do sometimes actually.
People do not change their sexuality, don't be absurd. People experiment, yes. People grow and mature, yes. However gay people do not suddenly become straight.
Suggesting that someone is unsuitable on the basis of their skin colour is acceptable then, is it?
Like you said, how is that different from suggesting that they aren't suitable based on their sexuality.
We're not talking about same sex adoptions being outlawed here, rather the opposite. Should a Catholic parent giving their child up for adoption be prevented from wanting their child brought up with their belief system?
Liek I said, I personally don't agree with the stance of the Catholic Church, but I don't believe that my morals should be forced on them when there is a "market" for this kind of adoption.
It was not a choice I made. Oh and if you think everyone has a choice in their job or where they live, you've got a lot to learn about life.
Which is a very different thing from what you originally said.
Errrr...I've asked a few. They all say that it wasn't a choice. Any more than I chose to be straight.
They are refused point blank by that agency.
I don't see why the Government should force something on the Church which the Church finds abhorrent, and then expect the Church to plod along as though nothing as changed. If the Government thinks this shitty law is more important than the children in Catholic care then so be it- but they can pick up the pieces when the Catholic Church quite rightly tells them to go and get knotted.
Of course its much easier to blame the "evil" Catholic Church than cast the blame where it's really due- at an interfering Government that wants to get something for nothing from the Catholic Church whilst simultaneously stabbing them in the back.
You evidently have no respect for how significant religion can be in some peoples lives, and until you do you won't appreciate this debate.
If an agency point black refuses to deal with someone based purely on the colour of their skin, then that is against race discrimination laws. Refusing to place a particular child is not, as long as they agree to still deal with you. Regardless of what I feel about it...and I have mixed feelings tbh.
The Catholic Church aren't blackmailing anyone, they are stating a fact. If they are prevented from doing something within their priciples then they will stop doing it.
No, I haven't said that. Refusing to place a particular child based on the fact that they may be more suitable with a couple from the same cultural background is not the same as point blank refusal...regardless of what I think about it (and as I already said, I have mixed feelings on the issue).
See above.
If you give up your child, do you have any say in the matter?
You still haven't said why religion deserves special treatment? Could another agency get special dispensation based on politics for example
I have understanding about how religion is important to some people, yes. Do I have respect? Not sure tbh.
Why should religion have special treatment above, politics, say? If I was running an adoption agency, could I refuse to deal with tories, say?
Why shouldn't you? Just because you cannot manage, for whatever reason, then why shouldn't you want what you think is best for you child? Especially considering that giving the child up for adoption in the first place may be based on doing what you think is best for your child?
You have said that placing a particular child can be relevant, so why can't the Catholic Church say that it's adoption policy covers all such children?
Why not?
I don't know, I was asking a question.
I'm not sure I get what you mean here.
Well, if we could stop tories adopting, that might be an idea.
Other agencies should have the choice of dealing with what they are good at.
You say that a particular child's interests should be taken into consideration and that BEM children can be deemed unsuitable for adoption by white parents.
My question is that if an agency - in this case the Catholic Church - believes that the children under it's care all consitute "particular needs" then why can't it apply a blanket ban?
If unsuitability can be applied for one child under their care then why not all?
TBH I'd vote for sterilisation. Why punish the child?
That's the best thing I've heard you say all through this debate:) .
Would you let a known NF member adopt a child?
Before you say that the National Front isn't a political party let me inform you that the NF won 5 seats in the houses of Parliament in the 1977 general elections.
The only reason they don't still run properly is that the BNP gained more support than them so the BNP took over the far right instead.
If you start passing laws that make actively being a bigot illegal, then of course you're going to be at logger-heads with religious institutions; being bigoted is a large part of what they do.
Still, I think it comes down to a question of what's best for the kids. I don't really see how closing down adoptive care centres is a particularly Christian thing to do, but if the Catholic Church is going to throw its toys out of the pram, then they really have the government bent over a barrel.
If the government decides to stop them doing that then it stands to reason that they will stop doing it.
You run an animal rehoming centre, the government says you can no longer chose the people you think are suitable to rehome animals as defined by your standards. You'd probably stop doing it, rather than place the animals with people you think are unsuitable.