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yeah- that was mypoint, was looking at jewellry online but would have said something like that.
Wasn't quite the same though was it. The thing about Henry was a suggestion that Reyes should be better than Henry because he's black, and the monkey chants were only aimed at black players, not much shouted at the white dudes...
So they've said evict the evil racist witch on Friday, Goody riddance and a nasty editorial on Saturday, NoTW exclusive that she's sorry today, and tomorrow SHOCK HORROR she wants to kill herself.
"Yes, it's a good day to publish NHS waiting list figures, Goody's in hysterics again!"
The red topped rags will be loving this. Saying all that, I think she knows what she's done now, so it's probably time to leave her be for a bit.
Now I happen to believe that all such incidents make the author a bit racist, even if they genuinely believe they're only doing to hurt the other person in the most effective way. But I find the double standards rather amusing.
Aragones went beyond insulting Henry, though, didn't he. He specifically said that Reyes should be better than Henry because he is white and Henry is black- that's racist. There's absolutely no other way of looking at it. If he'd just called Henry a black bastard then he may have had a leg to stand on- Ron Atkinson's protestations could be believed, for instance.
As for the monkey chants and the bananas, it wasn't just targeted at one player, it was targeted at all black players in most games for many years. Eto'o and the England players were simply the first to complain about it. It was exactly the same as it was at Chelsea and Millwall 15 years ago- and nobody could claim that wasn't racially-motivated either.
And after that England game, there have been incidents on Eto'o and maybe one or two more black players- but not on the dozens of other black players who play in Spain.
Which clearly indicates that there are certain individuals being picked on rather than just anyone from that race.
Which according to your reasoning and that of many others, does not constitute racism in itself but malicious bullying with racist undertones designed to hurt the victim, rather than being an indication of racism by the instigators.
Can't have it both ways. Either everyone who does such things is a racist or nobody is.
Same as I hold Jade's views to be based on stupidity and her personal dislike of someone rather than race, while the Spanish managers remarks were more general racism.
That's not true at all, is it. The black players at certain teams have been complaining about it for years, as has Eto'o. It was a problem for him when he was a nobody at Real.
The Spanish fans' reaction was racism, in the same way that it was racism at Millwall, Chelsea and Cardiff until the mid-90s. It was targeted at colour at those clubs, who have stamped it out, and I think its sad that Marca et al won't admit that they have the same problem in Spain. Aragones was racist- his argument was that Henry, as a black player, is inferior to white players like Reyes.
Atkinson was just stupid, though, as was Goody. The distinction isn't always clear, intent and context are a lot. If Aragones has simply shouted "black bastard" at Henry I'd have probably believed him- what else he said was what showed the racism.
I don't think all Spanish fans are racist, but to try and claim that there isn't a racism problem at some clubs (Mallorca spring to mind) is a bit ridiculous. I don't think that all Spanish fans are racist any more than I think all Millwall or Chelsea fans are, but those clubs have had a long-standing racism problem which they have solved by condemning it rather than justifying it.
That's the difference- The Sun condemns racist football fans, Marca makes excuses for them. Atkinson was fired for his bozo comments, whereas Aragones was backed for his racism.
Of course there are racists everywhere, and a racist would take any opportunity given to express his true feelings in relative safety. The taunting of black players is disgraceful, even though many of those who do it claim it's just to wind an individual up. But the general concept that Spain is riddled with racists or that racism is a significant problem in Spain is not true- certainly not any more than in other countries.
If three women are bullying an Indian woman out of bitchiness not racism, then those Spanish fans who taunt one or two individual black players are exactly the same.
I do agree with you about the Spanish press and the FA being lenient twats though.
The difference, though, is that I believe that people like Eto'o are abused because of their colour not because of who they are. Eto'o was abused when he was a nobody too, so it isn't anything to do with his rather acrimonious move to Barca.
With the cretins in the BB house, I get the feeling the colour was just a handy excuse to attack someone they don't like. Especially as Jermaine Jackson wasn't abused too.
Racism isn't an ideology or a principle. it may come in the guise of that but it isn't, so there's many factors that can determine whether there will be any abuse or not
Germaine is a man and appears well-respected in the group, he is a harder target than Shilpa. Cowardice. etc. they obviously didn't like her; it was a perk that she was non-white.
What is it then?
The definition of racism is holding an opinion that someone is inferior to oneself purely because they belong to a different race. It isn't a one-off, you can't love everyone who's of one race and then be racist because you dislike one person.
The evidence is that the "bullies" are nasty and vicious people, and that the "victim" is a stuck-up obnoxious tart. I don't see where race comes into it. Me calling you a cunt doesn't make me hate women.
Who said it's a one-off? Racists hold the BELIEF, yes, you nailed it on the head. This doesn't have to lead to action, it depends on temperament, individual personalities. Shilpa was attacked because she is an Indian woman, whereas J/Germaine is not. I've lost count of the number of times a group of people have been telling a racist joke amongst friends, then stopped when someone of that particular race approaches them. Does this mean they've suddenly changed their views on race relations? No, it means they're scared, or embarrassed, ashamed; it could mean they just don't have the balls to go through with it to a crowd who might take offence.
People who are racist can often have one or two friends or acquaintances from the race they 'hate'. Again we see that it is restricted to BELIEF, and open to hypocrisy. They will say, "Ohhh, so-and-so isn't like the rest of them." Or they might not even acknowledge the factor of race because it contradicts their worldview. The 'evidence', meanwhile, does not point to Shilpa being a stuck-up obnoxious tart; frankly the 'tart' label is ridiculous, you slut, and the bad qualities the girls saw in Shilpa were just tiny glimpses that they blew out of proportion because they were threatened by her. One of the qualities they clearly identified as negative was "being Indian" or "being a foreigner" or "not knowing naffink about ma culture".
They can see this in other people; they can think they're inferior; but they do not have to scream to the world "I HATE ALL NON-WHITES!" for it to be true. It came out because they happened to be bullying a non-white person. If they were not racist, race would not have been a factor in their bullying no matter how much they despised her.
I thought this summed it up really well.
edit: and I fail to see how Shilpa is a 'tart'. Was it her ankle length skirts that were the deciding factor? Or maybe it was those provocative wooly jumpers she wore?
Rubbish.
When you want to hurt someone you attack them using the things that will hurt them the most. Racial abuse normally distresses the victim, so its an excellent tool when you're having a fight. It shows a rather unpleasant mindset, but it doesn't necessarily show a racist mindset.
Germaine Greer reckons this Shilpa person brought a lot of it on herself, deliberately- if she thinks that, its good enough for me.
Rubbish right back at ya.
wtf?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22012007/140/new-tv-race-row-slavery-praised.html
I would say I'm shocked, but if its coming from a public school student
Simplistic nonsense.
I call people cunts all the time, but I'm not a misogynist. It's the same principle.
Anyway, this thread is now officially as boring as Jade Goody (whoever she is).
And the difference between her making stereotypical comments and yourself is? At least the evidence is that's she changed her mind....
I was being tongue in cheek perhaps?
This really isn't a valid arguement, Jackson is not the same race as Shetty.