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Gay Sheep

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw some shitty homophobia in Brixton last year. Two women in a car getting abuse from a load of men hanging outside an off licence. Shouts of "bun dem!" and "fire dem!" (burn them) and "read the Bible batty gal!", followed by a bottle being thrown.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What worries me the most is not that they may have made this 'cure' but the fact that they call it a cure, being homosexual is not an illness, its the word usage that makes me think something is majorly wrong with todays stereotypes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Only in 'gay' areas does it seem safe to kiss a member of the same sex in the street imo.

    Is a gay area an area where gay culture is prevelent (to use an example, like a china-town might be for chinese people?), or any area where gay culture isn't frowned upon?

    Just wondering, because if you mean the first, then I would tend to disagree, as I've seen gay people kissing at uni, in airports, train stations, outside mcdonalds - everywhere really you'd see straight people kissing, and never heard anything said or done. Was a non-event.

    However, if you mean by 'gay' areas as areas that have said 'its ok to be gay here' then I may agree, for example I can't imagine a gay person feeling very comfortable snogging their boyfriend outside bargain booze in Braunstone (where there are lots of teenage 'mini-gangs' in Leicester). I think society is moving towards greater tolerance though, even if it's not quite absolute. I think as Budda said
    Of course people will always do that annoyingly human thing of not liking people who are different

    means that it's going to be everpresent, but I'd say in the last 2000 years it's seen as less of a bad thing than ever before.

    On that point actually, did all of the hate-the-gays come about because of the social context in which the major religions were born, which then spread their message. I wonder, for example, how native american indians thought of homosexuality (since they were detatched from organised religion).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote:
    I wonder, for example, how native american indians thought of homosexuality (since they were detatched from organised religion).

    What an odd thing to say, they had their own organised religions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    What an odd thing to say, they had their own organised religions.
    Heh, you can't get away with anything in this thread.

    Since they were detatched from organised religions that originated in the middle east, that by and large took of lot of their doctrine from what was culturally acceptable at the time in that locale. This then spread to Europe, North Africa and some of Asia.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote:
    On that point actually, did all of the hate-the-gays come about because of the social context in which the major religions were born, which then spread their message. I wonder, for example, how native american indians thought of homosexuality (since they were detatched from organised religion).

    It depends whether you ask Western anthropologists who've tended to romanticise the Indians culture or the Indians themselves

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/07/navajo07.xml
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    What an odd thing to say, they had their own organised religions.

    I think it's an interesting point. Although they probably did have their own organised religions, i'd be interested to see what an area which wasn't affected by the major religions we know, thought about homosexuality.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote:
    Hmm. I can't vouch for every gay person in the world, but in my experience when I've been out and seen guys or girls kissing nobody pays them much notice - not anymore than if it was a girl and a guy. Have you noticed that people do spit, tutt and stare then?
    I'm sorry, I completely disagree.

    I live in C. London, and I am very grateful for the comparatively liberal environment I've landed in, but that doesn't mean I've never had any trouble. For clarity, I should explain that I don't have a partner and so am not prone to holding hands and kissing in the street. However, because of the way I look I do get quite a lot of shit. When I used to live in Holloway I would often have people shout "fucking dyke!" at me, and once a man pushed me into a corner and said "You know what I really hate? I really fucking hate lesbians".

    Even in Soho - the "gay village", essentially - I've had people come over to my friends and I and shout abuse at us when we're going into clubs.

    I've also had problems at college - I've had to deal with a senior Union officer claiming he would shoot his son if he came out, I've attended CU events (as a Christian) where I've been told that were I to have sex with a woman I love it would be as bad as committing murder. On Friday, someone who is by no means anti-gay told a meeting that we shouldn't treat BME students and LGBT students the same way because BME students are born that way and LGBT students have made a choice.

    I could go on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's BME?

    PS as for the CU events, all sins but one are considered equal, though I can completely understand how you must feel being told that. I felt compelled to clarify that, I think a lot of christians lack sensitivity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    I've also had problems at college - I've had to deal with a senior Union officer claiming he would shoot his son if he came out, I've attended CU events (as a Christian) where I've been told that were I to have sex with a woman I love it would be as bad as committing murder. On Friday, someone who is by no means anti-gay told a meeting that we shouldn't treat BME students and LGBT students the same way because BME students are born that way and LGBT students have made a choice.
    That's despicable.

    You should talk to someone about those who said that to you. Even the press could help. Fuck 'em and expose them for what they are.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    That's despicable.

    You should talk to someone about those who said that to you. Even the press could help. Fuck 'em and expose them for what they are.

    Good idea, they should be exposed as the bunch of homophobic hateful arses they are.

    I still don't know why we are so ready to jump onto racism, but so much of authority generally ignores homophobia? Surley it's just as bad?

    One thing, don't go to the Mail.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    What's BME?

    Black and Minority Ethnic group, dunno why considering blacks aren't even the largest ethnic minority group in the UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who are?

    Sorry, I realise this is derailing a bit, but I'm interested.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought it might be, but wanted to check. Cheers JimV
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote:
    Is a gay area an area where gay culture is prevelent (to use an example, like a china-town might be for chinese people?), or any area where gay culture isn't frowned upon?

    Just wondering, because if you mean the first, then I would tend to disagree, as I've seen gay people kissing at uni, in airports, train stations, outside mcdonalds - everywhere really you'd see straight people kissing, and never heard anything said or done. Was a non-event.
    Sorry, I meant as in along Canal Street in Manchester where all the bars are, or perhaps some parts of Soho in London.
    However, if you mean by 'gay' areas as areas that have said 'its ok to be gay here' then I may agree, for example I can't imagine a gay person feeling very comfortable snogging their boyfriend outside bargain booze in Braunstone (where there are lots of teenage 'mini-gangs' in Leicester). I think society is moving towards greater tolerance though, even if it's not quite absolute. I think as Budda said
    Yeah, I think there are a lot of places where you can be 'gay' or 'straight'. For example, in Kingston two women could walk around holding hands, but in a more insular town, for example in Wrexham it would be frowned upon. I think some places are more open to progressive change than others in that respect.
    On that point actually, did all of the hate-the-gays come about because of the social context in which the major religions were born, which then spread their message. I wonder, for example, how native american indians thought of homosexuality (since they were detatched from organised religion).
    Good question (will look that up).

    I think that when people discuss homophobia in religion, we mostly have Judaism, Islam or Christianity in mind. For example, Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, HInduism, Jainism, Sikhism all probably have very different viewpoints.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    piccolo wrote:
    However, because of the way I look I do get quite a lot of shit.
    Sorry to hear that, but I don't understand: How can anyone tell you're gay by the way you look? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can quite often tell if someone is gay without having to ask.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I can quite often tell if someone is gay without having to ask.

    I think it's easier to tell with men. A lot of people think lesbians are just big butch dykes but most lesbians I've come across are anything but. Now with a fella, speech, the way he moves his hands and even the way he dresses, dead cert in most cases.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Besides the kind of bigot who starts verbally abusing someone, a young man or woman, because he thinks they are gay - the kind of people throwing bottles at someone's car because they think they are gay - do you really think it matters to them if they are right?

    Long as someone looks close enough to whatever twisted stereotype they hate that night, there gonna be fair game to abuse, anything to make their own miserable, bitter, waste-of-a-life feel better.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I can quite often tell if someone is gay without having to ask.

    Can you? how? Ok a few flaunt it, but I know several who its taken me ages to find out simply because there sexuality has never come up and that's the only thing which sets them apart from straight people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The thing with religion is that it was written down, and for whatever reason a lot of the 'religious' doctrine is only stuff that was relevant at the time. Which is why when I lok at a religion, I look at the main beliefs rather than individual things.

    Isn't it a sin punishable by death (in christianity) for a man to touch a woman when she is on her period. I mean, it's all a bit rubbish really, and I think homosexuality is the same thing. It was written there as a social thing at the time rather than anything else, and it annoys me when religious types take some bits as literally as anything and ignore other bits. Surely religion is about love/charity/respect and is more of a guide than a rulebook.

    Really sorry to hear that piccolo, I was just saying from the homosexual people I know they've never received much negative attention. I was called gay for years when I was little :grump: but I think that was the insult at the time. Weird thing though, I know several god-fearing bible-bashing christians (you know the hardcore type who go to church EVERY sunday) and they have no qualms with homosexuality. Unless you talk to them about it in a theoretical context, they quote how it is a sin etc. But as my friend puts it best 'jesus loves everyone anyway' whether you're gay or not.

    I've got a friend who came out a few years ago. The change was instantaneous, you could not miss that he's gay, even if you just saw him. He just flaunts it. 'dancing queen' is quite apt for him...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you? how? Ok a few flaunt it, but I know several who its taken me ages to find out simply because there sexuality has never come up and that's the only thing which sets them apart from straight people.
    I dunno... I can tell, I think it's a case of having a good gaydar. Some people act camp, possibly in order to send out signals to other possible partners but with women maybe it is harder to tell.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dunno... I can tell, I think it's a case of having a good gaydar. Some people act camp, possibly in order to send out signals to other possible partners but with women maybe it is harder to tell.
    I think with me it's the short hair, the fact I'm on the larger side of average (and quite short) and have piercings.

    However, I don't think I "act gay" (except for kissing girls, of course). I'm not remotely butch, if anything I'm quite camp which is just all the wrong stereotype!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    What's BME?

    PS as for the CU events, all sins but one are considered equal, though I can completely understand how you must feel being told that. I felt compelled to clarify that, I think a lot of christians lack sensitivity.
    BME is Black or Minority Ethnic.

    I know the theology, Fiend, but thanks for the clarification. I don't mind so much that people disagree on the issue (well, I do, but it's not the point here) - as you rightly say the main issue was a total lack of sensitivity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    When I used to live in Holloway I would often have people shout "fucking dyke!" at me, and once a man pushed me into a corner and said "You know what I really hate? I really fucking hate lesbians".
    I find that these type of nobheads are actually much more likely to say something like that to lesbians than gay men. It might be because they don't want to risk getting beat up by a gay bloke in front of all their friends. But I think often it's an extension of the type of bloke who calls a girl a slag when she ignores him or she's obviously not interested in him (never worked that one out myself). It's as if, God forbid there's a girl that he knows he's got no chance with, so he'll just reject her first in whatever way his pea brain can come up with quickest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dunno... I can tell, I think it's a case of having a good gaydar. Some people act camp, possibly in order to send out signals to other possible partners but with women maybe it is harder to tell.
    When I first started my job, I figured out the blokes straight away, but I didn't work out the one gay girl until she told me (which I was gutted about because she's hot). Chances are that if I'd seen her out of work, I would've realised quite quickly though, because she is fairly stereotypical in a lot of ways. But in terms of general mannerisms at work, the blokes were a lot easier to figure out. But who knows, there might be some that I don't know about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    BME is Black or Minority Ethnic.

    I know the theology, Fiend, but thanks for the clarification. I don't mind so much that people disagree on the issue (well, I do, but it's not the point here) - as you rightly say the main issue was a total lack of sensitivity.

    Surely the main issue is that your Christian Union is a bigot club? They harbour offensively-archaic views which really aren’t acceptable in a modern, thinking society. The fact that they’re not sensitive about their institutionalised ignorance seems by-the-by to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you? how? Ok a few flaunt it, but I know several who its taken me ages to find out simply because there sexuality has never come up and that's the only thing which sets them apart from straight people.

    I can't tell with everyone, but I can with most. Dunno how. Gaydar I think its called...even though I'm straight!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just don't understand why some gay men are so bloody camp though, some squeal with a really high pitched put on voice. All that hand flapping and divaness really gets to me!
    Even my best mate who's gay, hates queens!
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