Dunno if it's true but I do agree with it

Former Member · January 2007

If more people had to visit prisons and work with inmates then I think the idea that prisons are "soft" would soon be put to bed.

Having to go and visit teenagers in prison was the worst thing about my job.

Former Member · January 2007

The only entertainment that have left now is to fuck each other ....

Former Member · January 2007

Anyone that tries to entrap Jimmy Savile is a twat in my book.

James Saville was arrested in 1999 for attempting to murder Joe Arpaio. A jury decided that officers from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department had entrapped Saville and found him not guilty [8].

Teh_Gerbil · January 2007

Fiend_85 wrote:

I think prisoners should work. Like doing their own cooking and laundry, or having to study, Doing GCSEs A-levels etc. or apprentiships. I think having skills when you come out of prision would probably lower reoffending rates.

I think that too. And I don't think they should get stuff that is a luxury. It should be a basic but fair existence - no air-con is a bit OTT, most US houses have that. But no cable? AND? I don't have fucking cable.

Anyway. Prisoners should also do work for free, you know, basic stuff, making woodwork, sewing, metal work. For bigger crimes like rape, murder, etc, forced labour would do me fine.

Former Member · January 2007

The US has a larger proportion of it's population in jail than any other country in the entire world. So my guess is they're doing something wrong

Former Member · January 2007

I don't see the problem in trying to benefit from the prisoners, they have committed a crime and don't deserve any luxurious treatment. Screw the notion: 'there ARE people who are nice and cuddly' in prison. If I was to be honest, cut back on the luxuries and improve on the hygiene and improving the condition of the premises. I bet the prisoners would appreciate this more than the current unnecessary luxuries, e.g. gyms, supposed internet access and furniture (you should see the Swedish prisons, and even importantly, note the, imho, absurd prison sentences

)

Former Member · January 2007

Aladdin wrote:

Certainly if I believed prisoners had it so good, with their TVs, gyms and access to the internet, I'd be trying to get myself incarcerated!

You just wanna be some guy's bitch ...

Former Member · January 2007

Aladdin wrote:

Sounds like like a grade-A cunt.

I agree. Same as I dont think they should go out of their way to make their lives brilliant in prison, I dont think they should go out of their way to make life shit for them either.

Former Member · January 2007

ShyBoy wrote:

The US has a larger proportion of it's population in jail than any other country in the entire world. So my guess is they're doing something wrong

A majority of those individuals are there because they have been deemed guilty of possessing either a chemical or a plant.

Former Member · January 2007

VinylVicky wrote:

I think the lack of air conditioning is wrong though but I do believe in a lot of what he says. It would be very much a deterrant!

The idea of punishment as deterrent is a fallacy. It may deter a minority of people, but a lot of people who commit crime don't think of consequences. And conversely, people who don't commit crime don't do it because they're scared of punishment. I don't murder, rape or rob people and its got nothing to do with being scared of going to jail for it...

Former Member · January 2007

Fiend_85 wrote:

I think prisoners should work. Like doing their own cooking and laundry, or having to study, Doing GCSEs A-levels etc. or apprentiships. I think having skills when you come out of prision would probably lower reoffending rates.

They do usually. Prisoners in the vill (HMP Pentonville) make folders for hospital notes for example.

Former Member · January 2007

stargalaxy wrote:

Because we have greedy lawyers and criminals going to court (funded by Legal Aid, naturally) to use the Human Rights Act (which seems to place criminals rights ahead of their victims) to allow prisoners access to hardcore pornography.

What are you on about?

Former Member · January 2007

Some facts about the prison population

The statistics on prevalence provided by the Office of National Statistics study of psychiatric morbidity amongst prisoners indicate that approximately 90% of prisoners have either a psychosis, a neurosis, a personality disorder, or a substance misuse problem.

Brooker et al (2002) conducted a systemic review of literature on mental health and prisoners and considered the ONS study and other prevalence studies and proposed the following prevalence ranges:

* Personality disorder – ranges from 50% (in sentenced and remand female prisoners, to 78% (in male remand prisoners).
* Neurotic disorder – ranges from 40% (in male sentenced prisoners) to 76% (in female prisoners)
* Drug dependency – ranges from 34% (in male sentenced prisoners) to 52% ( in female remand prisoners)
* Alcohol dependency – ranges from 19% (in females sentenced prisoners) to 30% (in both sentenced and remand male prisoners)
* Schizophrenia or delusional disorder – ranges from 6% (in males sentenced prisoners) to 13% (in female remand and sentenced prisoners)
* Affective psychosis – 1% - 2% of prisoners

Rates of self harm and attempted suicide were high:

* Attempted suicide over a 12 month period ranged between 7% (in male sentenced prisoners) and 27% (in female remand prisoners);
* Self-harm during the current spell in prison ranged between 5% (in male remand prisoners) and 10% (in female sentenced prisoners).

Farrell et al (2002) report that the incidence of psychosis in their study was 20 times that of its incidence in the general population. They also found a strong association between severe dependence on cannabis and psycho-stimulants and psychosis.

http://www.scmh.org.uk/80256FBD004F6342/vWeb/wpKHAL6HWF85

* 52% of male prisoners and 71% of female prisoners have no qualifications at all
* 67% of all prisoners were unemployed at the time of imprisonment
* The number of nationally-recognised qualifications in literacy, language and numeracy achieved by prisoners has risen from 25,300 in 2001-02 to 63,500 in 2004-05.
(Source: Department for Education and Skills, December 2005)

* Half of the 75,000 people in prison gained no qualifications at school and suffer from poor literacy and numeracy skills, according to a survey by the British Dyslexia Association. Around one fifth have hidden disabilities such as dyslexia and other learning difficulties.
(Guardian, 20 April 2005)

* The prison service invites convicted prisoners on reception to volunteer to take a literacy test devised by the Basic Skills Agency which is approximately equivalent to the reading skills expected of 9 to 10-year-olds. The 1998 results showed that 60% had problems with literacy, and 40% had a severe literacy problem.
* In the three years preceding 1998, the prison population grew by nearly 14,000 to 65,600, while spending on inmates' education was cut by nearly £1 million.
* The Social Exclusion Unit in its first report on truancy and exclusion (July 1998) showed the tangled web of problems that lie in the background when young people are excluded from school, or exclude themselves through truancy. Low aspirations, poor literacy and a peer culture that doesn't value education are common culprits.
* In 2002, a Social Exclusion Unit report showed that most prisoners come from socially excluded backgrounds: they are 13 times more likely to have been in care and 14 times more likely to have been unemployed than non-offenders. More than half of all male prisoners and over two thirds of female prisoners have no qualifications.
(Source: Reducing Re-offending by ex-prisoners, Social Exclusion Unit, 2002)

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/Database/stats/keystats3.html

* Two thirds of men in prison are diagnosed with a personality disorder and two fifths show symptoms of at least one neurotic disorder such as depression, anxiety and phobias. Among the general population less than a fifth of men are affected by these disorders.
* Men in prison have a high rate of severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia or delusional disorders – nearly ten per cent compared to less than one per cent of the general population.
* One in five men in prison are on prescribed medication such as anti-depressants or anti-psychotic medicine and there is evidence that the use of medication increases whilst in custody.
* One in five male prisoners have attempted suicide at some stage in their life and the same number have previously been admitted for in-patient psychiatric care.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=317

Former Member · January 2007

SuzyCreamcheese wrote:

I dont like the idea that its just "criminals" as in someone who commits a crime and ends up in prison. ALL SORTS of people end up in prison for minor crimes - Vicky, its not as if youve never broken the law yourself - would you feel you deserved this treatment too? I dont think I would even though ive definitely broken the law many times.

Well hats off to SCC. That's exactly the point that annoys me so much when the conversation turns to 'criminals' and the justice system/criminal policy, the fact that so many people tend to think of these matters as if the people who will ever be involved in a criminal activity or even have the risk of falling in prison is always someone else - the 'other' people so to speak. People spout out harsh words for those who land in prison always speaking from the other side of the fence.

The policies concerning criminality should always be thought out as though you could yourself one day be on the stand, or a family member.

Former Member · January 2007

Oh, Blagsta, you have to ruin things with cold hard facts, don't you

Indrid Cold · January 2007

bluewisdom wrote:

The policies concerning criminality should always be thought out as though you could yourself one day be on the stand, or a family member.

So if I want to judge fairly how a serial killer should be treated, I should ask myself how I'd like to be treated if I was a serial killer? I doubt it...
I know not everyone in prison is a serial killer, but that's more of an argument to not lump simple thieves together with killers, not to make all prisons considerably easy to go through.

Former Member · January 2007

Indrid Cold wrote:

not to make all prisons considerably easy to go through.

They're not. They come in different categories.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/justice/prison/

Former Member · January 2007

People don’t seem to realise that prisons only work when prisoners and officers get on – there are always more prisoners. By giving prisoners some privileges (not luxuries) they then have the power to take them away and this gives everybody the incentive to stay in line. Having TVs and music and stuff helps to keep people sane when you are locked up for hours on end in your cell. The biggest thing about prison is not being with the people you want to be with and having no real control of your life and being told what to do and when to do it. It's not the holiday camp that some people seem to think it is.

People always think that it’s all murderers and rapists etc. but that’s only very few of the people in prison. Most people are there for much less serious stuff and while most people probably deserve to be there they should be treated well.

That guy in America seems to want to go back to the stone age and seems to think that prisoners aren’t much better than animals. How can you expect people to act normally when they get released if they are treated so badly when in prison.

Indrid Cold · January 2007

Blagsta wrote:

They're not. They come in different categories.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/justice/prison/

Irrelevant part of me to quote. And if that's so, my first paragraph still applies.

Looking at who has posted that message though, I realise it's probably a mistake to reply.

Former Member · January 2007

Indrid Cold wrote:

Irrelevant part of me to quote. And if that's so, my first paragraph still applies.

Looking at who has posted that message though, I realise it's probably a mistake to reply.

My point is that prisoners aren't all "lumped together".

Former Member · January 2007

shane999 wrote:

People don’t seem to realise that prisons only work when prisoners and officers get on – there are always more prisoners. By giving prisoners some privileges (not luxuries) they then have the power to take them away and this gives everybody the incentive to stay in line. Having TVs and music and stuff helps to keep people sane when you are locked up for hours on end in your cell. The biggest thing about prison is not being with the people you want to be with and having no real control of your life and being told what to do and when to do it. It's not the holiday camp that some people seem to think it is.

People always think that it’s all murderers and rapists etc. but that’s only very few of the people in prison. Most people are there for much less serious stuff and while most people probably deserve to be there they should be treated well.

That guy in America seems to want to go back to the stone age and seems to think that prisoners aren’t much better than animals. How can you expect people to act normally when they get released if they are treated so badly when in prison.

Hear hear!

Former Member · January 2007

ShyBoy wrote:

The US has a larger proportion of it's population in jail than any other country in the entire world. So my guess is they're doing something wrong

The US has over 1 million people in prison, enough to setup their own country

Former Member · January 2007

Indrid Cold wrote:

So if I want to judge fairly how a serial killer should be treated, I should ask myself how I'd like to be treated if I was a serial killer? I doubt it...

No, you've oversimplified the point I was trying to make. The question in itself is a legitimate one to be considered on some part of the process, but its answer to it doesn't mean that that's what should be done automatically, but that it should be considered at least in some point in the reflection, which I think is what today's attitude towards criminality is lacking tbh - hence the need to stress this point imo.

Ultimately there should be a balance between what is best for the individual and what is best for the rest of society... well, like any other issue in politics really. But the thing is, when I hear people saying that criminals should be killed, or deliberately treated badly (or not stressing to see they are treated correctly), or not have access to minimum commodities, or be sent to a far-away island, etc. or anything coming from a repressive culture, then I think they need to remember that those people are humans too. It might sound like stating the obvious, but when I hear such atrocities then I think maybe they really need to hear it because they sound like they forgot it tbh.

I might be going on a limb here, but at least in my country the people who effectively land in prison are the people belonging to the lower classes, which have had considerably much less opportunities in life than others, are constatly discriminated, don't have access to good lawyers and honestly, no-one gives a fuck about what happens to them. Whereas it's the people from the higher classes which sit in Parliament and other Government positions which think up these policies sitting in their comfy chairs, riding their comfy and luxurious cars, going home to their huge and perfect house and whose children, therefore, have next to zero chances of actually landing in jail no matter what they do. Which is why they can fill their mouths with all this gibberish about having being more repressive in the treatment of encarcerated people only beacuase saying so rises their marks in the public opinion - but who will never really be affected by the rules and policies they are making. These are the people who I think should stop a moment after they have masterminded their new ideas of how to make things harsher for criminals, take a little perspective and say 'would I still support this policy if it were my son who ever had to go through this?' I think it's a perfectly legitimate philosophical method to test something imo, as it forces you to empathise at least for a moment with those whom your ideas and decisions will affect.

Indrid Cold · January 2007

For the record, I never said people in prison should be treated like scum or anything. But I think some of the things they seem to have are not deserved, and also that it's much better if they spend their time doing something to help others rather than watching TV or lifting weights.
As for who are the people who end up in prison, that's a different problem really. One that needs to be fixed as well.

Dunno if it's true but I do agree with it

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