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Dangerous Dogs....

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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    HIT wrote:
    Funny, how many people here walk staffs and find some people dragging themselves and children away?

    I could understand it if they avoided ALL dogs though, some people would rather not take the risk when their children are involved.
    What pisses me off is the snooty ignorant comments, 'oh it's one of those dogs', 'oh it's pit bull'.
    I used to take time to try and explain, but I get so fed up now I just tell them they're cunts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    I could understand it if they avoided ALL dogs though, some people would rather not take the risk when their children are involved.
    What pisses me off is the snooty ignorant comments, 'oh it's one of those dogs', 'oh it's pit bull'.
    I used to take time to try and explain, but I get so fed up now I just tell them they're cunts.
    Its there stereotype, you say to a random person "staff", they usually respond with dog fighting.

    When walking I do get a fair few kids run up to them and stroke them, where there puppies they get excited and jump up and lick them. I guess from a distance someone could think that they are trying to eat the kids. lol
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    There's still no exception. Fair enough it's circumstances out of their control, but when you're too old or too sick to care for an animal, then it should be cared for by someone else, or put down.
    :yes: like i said, very much like a child - cept you don't put them down
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    There's still no exception. Fair enough it's circumstances out of their control, but when you're too old or too sick to care for an animal, then it should be cared for by someone else, or put down.
    Some elderly people cant go out but can still look after the dogs and treat them well. They become companions to them.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    I've never had a dod that is so good with kids. They can come up and pull ears and tail, stroke her roughly and she won't bat an eyelid.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    HIT wrote:
    Some elderly people cant go out but can still look after the dogs and treat them well. They become companions to them.

    All dogs need to go outside every day, though many smaller breeds don't really need to be walked as long as they're not bored.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    I've never had a dod that is so good with kids. They can come up and pull ears and tail, stroke her roughly and she won't bat an eyelid.
    one of our old dogs used to hate kids, we think the paper boy had done something to her because she was incredibly funny with him in perticular. Couldn't trust her with kids at all, then me and my brother came along and we would be poking and pulling her and she didn't turn a hair. She was fine with kids after that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Some elderly people cant go out but can still look after the dogs and treat them well. They become companions to them.
    Which is lovely, but not good for the dog. If you want a companion that can look after itself, get a cat.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Which is lovely, but not good for the dog. If you want a companion that can look after itself, get a cat.

    It's not like you every get the headline "Child Mauled to Death by Cat", is it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Which is lovely, but not good for the dog. If you want a companion that can look after itself, get a cat.
    A cat? :yuck:

    :D
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    It's not like you every get the headline "Child Mauled to Death by Cat", is it?

    No.
    But My gran who used to a vet, said she had to go to hospital far more times as a result of a cat than a dog. The back claws can open you right up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have been bitten than more pet rabbits than I have dogs.

    Perhaps we should put muzzles on them. :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    , where there puppies they get excited and jump up and lick them

    All dogs are like that. We have a jack russell (I think my aunty & grandma both have jack russells as well) and they will jump up at everyone they meet. Same goes for the lurcher we have.

    I do wonder though, was it the child's fault that the dog lashed out at her and she got attacked as a result of that? I guess the same goes for all the reports of dog attacks in the last year or so - they fail to mention whether this was the child's fault or whether the child was just sat there nad just got attacked.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not like you every get the headline "Child Mauled to Death by Cat", is it?

    Depends on the size of the cat

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3081380.stm

    Anyway cats aren't pets, they're rather selfish guests. Dogs are so much better...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    All dogs are like that. We have a jack russell (I think my aunty & grandma both have jack russells as well) and they will jump up at everyone they meet. Same goes for the lurcher we have.

    I do wonder though, was it the child's fault that the dog lashed out at her and she got attacked as a result of that? I guess the same goes for all the reports of dog attacks in the last year or so - they fail to mention whether this was the child's fault or whether the child was just sat there nad just got attacked.
    In most cases, usually the dog will warn you by growling, then you walk away. Thats what I said before with those 10 year olds that got attacked. Were they being kids and intimidating the dog for fun and being chased? Until someone says really, the dog could have well been scared and having strangers coming up to you and provoking you, that may have caused it to attack.

    No, I am not defending dogs that bite.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with dogs, is that biting is a normal behaviour for them.

    Its not a bad behaviour, theres no such thing as a bad behaviour when it comes to dogs because they dont think like humans- they are dogs. And too many people forget this. No dog should be trusted 100% in my opinion, even if its the sweetest dog and has never behaved aggressively before. Dogs dont think before they act, they just act upon what information they have at the time. They cannot completely read human (and other dog) behaviour.

    The problem with biting is its simply inconvenient to humans, of course it is. But its a perfectly natural behaviour and as humans we should realise that there is always a risk of any dog behaving "inconveniently", whether thats as a result of its training, past experiences, genetics, or health.

    I think that there would be far less dog attacks if people trained their dogs properly. There such a lack of education in this area. People are *still* using unacceptible methods to train their dogs. At a rescue shelter i used to work at, i saw a worker pick up a staffie by its scruff, and throw it on the ground- just because it pulled on the lead. Its disgusting, now this staffie will lack trust in humans, its been mistreated, it doesnt understand why pulling is a bad behaviour and its learned nothing from being treated that way- all its learned is that humans can treat it badly. But this experience in itself is going to make this dog more prone to aggression towards humans in the future, for example it could have got rehomed and a kid may have touch its scruff while petting it and the dog may have bitten the child. The dog has done nothing wrong, its reacting to its past experiences.

    Ive gone off on a bit of a tangent, but at the end of the day, a dog is a dog. It doesnt have human thinking capabilities and therefore i dont think it is ever a dog at fault for damaging or killing someone because it is only behaving naturally.

    Breed differentiation is so specific that there are breeds that have a higher likelyhood of attacking people, just due to "aggressive" behaving dogs being inbred hundreds of years ago, and behaviours being inherited. But this doesnt mean you can say an entire breed is "aggressive" or "vicious" because a dogs behaviour is based on so many different factors. It just so happens that it is the strongest or biggest dogs that are capable of causing the most damage (obviously) and therefore get the worst reputation- expecially when originally bred for fighting or guarding.

    It doesnt help that alot of people exploit a breeds reputation by egging it on to be aggressive without even thinking of the consequences. Im not saying that all pit bull owners are the same, or that all german shepherd owners are the same, but ive seen dog owners before almost enjoying the fact that their dog is so strong and could do so much damage, something without even realising it they are actually training their dogs to act aggressively so that they look macho. Ive seen groups of teenage lads walking a german shepherd before and they found it hillarious that it was barking at other dogs and almost saw other dogs as competition against their dog, like of who is the "hardest" or something. And once a dog senses that its owner is enjoying its aggressive behaviours it will carry on behaving that way, thus it can get out of hand really easily and end up injuring someone. How is it the dogs fault? It was behaving in a way that it thought made its owners pleased, a way that it had been trained to behave.

    Some people just shouldnt be allowed to keep dogs, full stop. But theres no way of controlling how people should train their dogs to behave and what methods they use. So many people dont even realise that they have caused their dog to behave aggressively. It is always the owners responsibility to be vigilant towards their dogs behavior, its not the dogs fault if its owner didnt restrain it properly.

    At the end of the day, a dog should never be left with a child. It is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry. Any dog can be trained to wear a basket muzzle, they are perfectly safe, allow the dog to pant and drink, and i think that all dogs should be trained to accept wearing one just in case they need to in the future. I think that all dog owners should own one. If a dog is wearing a basket muzzle when left alone with a child there would be such a reduction in the amount of injuries to children from dog bites.

    The ethical issue when it comes to putting dogs to sleep as a result of displaying aggressive behaviours is that alot of the time the dog was provoked or acting on what it has learned. Im not really sure where i stand on the issue. I think that if a dog is stressed out (and therefore suffering) enough while behaving aggressively then euthenasia may be the best route. But i think that in alot of cases with a little training the dog can learn how to behave appropriately around humans. If a dog has bitten a child in the past and goes to a rescue centre then i think it should not be rehomed with children but it should be trained and rehomed with adults that know what they are doing when it comes to handling dogs.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    Up unitl quite recently, all dogs were bred as working dogs whether it be for fighting, guarding or hunting. Pit Bulls have never been trained to be agressive towards people, though dogs like Alsations have. I think being specific about breeds really doesn't do much good at all.
    The most important factors that determine how a dog behaves is the enviroment in which it's brought up, it's training and it's owner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Up unitl quite recently, all dogs were bred as working dogs whether it be for fighting, guarding or hunting. Pit Bulls have never been trained to be agressive towards people, though dogs like Alsations have. I think being specific about breeds really doesn't do much good at all.
    The most important factors that determine how a dog behaves is the enviroment in which it's brought up, it's training and it's owner.

    the problem is though, that dogs like pit bulls, staffordshire bull terriers and lots of other breeds are so strong, that when they do bite it has bigger consequences than when something like a jack russel bites. They're not more likely to bite but are capable of doing more damage when they do, which is what gives them the reputation. And alot of the time, owners do enjoy the fact that their dog has the stregnth to have the potential to do so much damage.

    I think that if every dog on earth was trained correctly, there wouldnt be much difference in the number of bites between breeds. (but obviously the bigger dogs would probably cause bigger injuries)

    Its like, people often say that small dogs are snappier. Its not true. The entire behaviour of being snappy is not inherited, its just they do less damage so its easy to ignore and not bother to train them to stop or have them put to sleep. It just means more small snappy dogs get away with it than big snappy dogs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blah wrote:
    at the end of the day, a dog is a dog. It doesnt have human thinking capabilities and therefore i dont think it is ever a dog at fault for damaging or killing someone because it is only behaving naturally.

    At the end of the day, a dog should never be left with a child. It is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry.

    :yes:

    I once heard a dog trainer talking about dogs and kids, and she said pretty much exactly this, and that she would NEVER leave ANY dog unsupervised with children. Even if it's your faithful old family mongy, he's been around the kids 10,000 times and behaved like an angel, he is an animal, he doesn't have morals or values and there is absolutely no guarantee he wouldn't bite the child the 10,001st time.

    All animals have the potential to be unpredictable, and it should be up to the people who look after them to never take any chances.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    Blah wrote:
    the problem is though, that dogs like pit bulls, staffordshire bull terriers and lots of other breeds are so strong

    They're not any strong than a Retriever, Lab or Collie and certainly not stronger that Ridgeback or Alsation.

    I would though agree that the more dangerous dogs are the larger and stronger dogs, simply because if they do turn nasty they're more likely to kill.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Got to say, grew up with dogs and spent a lot of time hanging around on friend's farms and walking through farmland at weekends, etc. Always learnt to treat dogs with the respect they deserved and to be careful when around them.

    That's not to say I think dogs are violent, or a certain breed are bad, and I've always loved playing and rough housing with the dogs I've grown up with, but that people seem to have an increasing belief that just because an animal is a pet it means it'll automatically be wonderful to be around or treat people or children well.

    Like blah said, dogs need to be trained well and trained for what they do, and people need to be certain what a dog has been trained to do before assuming it's safe to be around.

    The number of times I've seen walkers let their children just run up to working dogs on farms is shocking, and it's lucky I've not seen more attacks.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not like you every get the headline "Child Mauled to Death by Cat", is it?
    That's because they prefer to kill their victims by stealing their breath as they sleep :mad: ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyway cats aren't pets, they're rather selfish guests. Dogs are so much better...
    No cats aren't pets- they are excellent companions, affectionate and fascinating. And very low maintenance.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    They're not any strong than a Retriever, Lab or Collie and certainly not stronger that Ridgeback or Alsation.

    I would though agree that the more dangerous dogs are the larger and stronger dogs, simply because if they do turn nasty they're more likely to kill.
    It's all down to the stereotypes. When you think of alsations, you think of highly trained police dogs or guard dogs (although in fact, I've heard of more people being attacked by trained guard dogs because an owners left a gate open or something than other dog types). When you think of staffies or rottweilers, you think of aggressive, untrained dogs that fuckwits use to intimidate people they don't like. I know it's an unfair stereotype, but I think that's where a mistrust of certain breeds over others comes from. It is basically an extension of the stereotypes of the people that tend to own certain breeds.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Got to say, grew up with dogs and spent a lot of time hanging around on friend's farms and walking through farmland at weekends, etc. Always learnt to treat dogs with the respect they deserved and to be careful when around them.

    That's not to say I think dogs are violent, or a certain breed are bad, and I've always loved playing and rough housing with the dogs I've grown up with, but that people seem to have an increasing belief that just because an animal is a pet it means it'll automatically be wonderful to be around or treat people or children well.

    Like blah said, dogs need to be trained well and trained for what they do, and people need to be certain what a dog has been trained to do before assuming it's safe to be around.

    The number of times I've seen walkers let their children just run up to working dogs on farms is shocking, and it's lucky I've not seen more attacks.
    Our dog is very timid and for some reason hates children. I remember taking her out and these two kids walking up to her with their father and trying to stroke her... She was trying to get away but the Dad was encouraging the kids and the dog hated it. She was cowering.

    Our dog has a very gentle temperament, but a lot of dogs would bite. Parents shouldn't encourage children to stroke dogs or even touch them and should make them aware of a dog's body language. Trainers should discipline their dogs... It doesn't take much inteligence to do either.

    People always seem to blame something other than their own stupid actions. Unless that dog broke from its lead, ran up to the child, ripped off its muzzle and mauled them then it's the owner ad parent's fault.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    No.
    But My gran who used to a vet, said she had to go to hospital far more times as a result of a cat than a dog. The back claws can open you right up.

    Be fair though, I'd try to rip her fucking guts out if she tried to stick a thermometer up my are...
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