Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.

Dangerous Dogs....

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
A five-year-old girl (Ellie Lawrenson) has been killed and her grandmother seriously injured by a pit bull terrier at their family home on Merseyside.

Should there be more to protect people from 'dangerous' dogs?
Have you had a bad experience with a dog?

I hate the fact that they keep saying that these breeds are like devil dogs...it's stupid. Labradors are more notorious for biting, if you want to look at it in that way.Villifying certain breeds doesn't help at all. It just allows the public to fall into a false sense of security. Beleiving that if your dog's breed isn't listed as dangerous under the law, then surely it will be safe. People always blame the animal, why not look at the people who own them and how they treat them?
«1

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This may be an unfair stereotype, but does anyone else notice that the dogs that are most likely to hurt someone tend to be owned by the people who are most likely to hurt someone? Nobheads, who's kids are nobheads, who's dogs are also nobheads. That's how it is with the one dog that is allowed by its owners to walk around our street anyway.

    But simple things like requiring a dog to be on a lead when it's on the streets would be a start. Other options would be a license for owning a dog, but I think that's going a bit far since there are already too many dogs without a home. But I'd be interested to know how complaints are dealt with, and what someone has to do for them to legally have their dog taken away. Can someone who has an ASBO as a result of violence still own a dog, for example?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't it interesting how dog attacks have only been making big news since that baby was killed?

    eta: they're having a pit bull amnesty in N.I
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair Ballerina, dog attacks normally make news, but only become national news when one kills someone and its a slow news day.

    Animals do learn behaviour from their owners in the same way children do, but it is the animal's fault, regardless of who else may be to blame. Dangerous dogs should be destroyed in the same way, IMHO, that dangerous people should be destroyed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But I'd be interested to know how complaints are dealt with, and what someone has to do for them to legally have their dog taken away.

    Might not be what you were going for, but my dog was attacked in the park by another dog last November, so I've a little insight into this.

    The other dog is a breed known for aggression, although not on the dangerous dogs list (Japanese Akita). He was on a lead, although not muzzled, and the attack was serious (my dog was very nearly killed - only saved by her fat back) and unprovoked. He pulled away from his owner and the guy was not strong enough to hold on.

    We tried to report the incident to the police on the advice of our vet, and they were totally uninterested. They wouldn't even take any details. So now there is a dog capable of attacking to the death and too strong for his owner to control when on a lead, walking freely around unmuzzled. Brilliant :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Animals do learn behaviour from their owners in the same way children do, but it is the animal's fault, regardless of who else may be to blame. Dangerous dogs should be destroyed in the same way, IMHO, that dangerous people should be destroyed.
    I'd reckon it's actually much easier to "rehabilitate" a dangerous dog than a dangerous human.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Kermit wrote:
    Dangerous dogs should be destroyed in the same way, IMHO, that dangerous people should be destroyed.
    So you're saying that dogs should be given attorneys, go through a trial, and thrown to jail? Or that every person who's done harm on another should be killed?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have some of the supposedly most dangerouse dog around it seems, staffs. Funny that animal experts always recommend the as family pets. Even my Yorkshire terrier is more snappy.

    I have came across pit bulls, a lovely one called Baileys rings a bell. He was really placid.

    In most cases its how you train a dog and what environment its bought up in. There is on the off chance sometimes mental health problems which sometimes cause them to snap.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Or that every person who's done harm on another should be killed?

    Dangerous attackers (rapists, serial murderers, etc) should be destroyed, yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A boy in my english class had his face bitten by a pit bull, he was doing some work at a persons home and it just went for him - he had to have stitches. I think the owner was an old lady.

    My dog has been attacked several times by 2 labradors, they pinned her down and almost ripped off her throat - the owner did nothing to stop them.

    There are more agressive breeds than others - but it's rarely down to the dog type - it's the owner type. I think that before people buy dogs they should go on a short training course so they know what to do. More often than not people just get a dog because they feel like it, don't bother to give it basic training and after a bit can't be bothered with it anymore. So the dogs get stressed and stressed dogs = agressive dogs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was bitten on the nose by a Jack Russell when I was a kid, and the owner was my childminder so I really don't think it was anything to do with her personality or her fault for having trained the dog poorly/not at all. It's not always the case, anyway, it can be the dog's basic personality, the way it has been trained, or how the victim has behaved toward the animal... or a mixture of the three factors.

    It is terribly sad and shocking when someone dies as a result of a dog attack, and especially when it is a particularly defenceless person as in this case. Of course I am not saying that it is a child's (or adult's, for that matter) fault if they are attacked by a dog, but I do think measures need to be taken to teach kids how to behave around animals... and as shown by this case even their own family pets, and that they need to exercise extreme caution as any dog has the potential to go nuts in the right (or wrong) circumstances. A dog is an animal at the end of the day and upon feeling endangered or irritated they do sometimes react in a very extreme way, as they may well in the wild. I'm sure the same could be said for some humans!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel for the family, I really do

    But any dog has the ability to snap and I dont think that because a dog is a certain breed, it is more or less likely to attack...

    Staffs for example are considered "devil dogs" yet have yet to meet one that isnt mild mannered, you cant judge a dog by it's breed

    As for the "who to blame" question...I suppose it's that old aged argument of nature v nurture

    However, when you listen to stories like this you feel for the people involved and condem the dog, but when the story unravels, and you hear that the dog had been complained about, been in fights with other dogs, and attacked the child at 4.30am...you need to start asking questions about the parents and their role in it all
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This may be an unfair stereotype, but does anyone else notice that the dogs that are most likely to hurt someone tend to be owned by the people who are most likely to hurt someone? Nobheads, who's kids are nobheads, who's dogs are also nobheads. That's how it is with the one dog that is allowed by its owners to walk around our street anyway.

    There's an old saying that dogs tend to look like their owners. Perhaps this is the same kind of thing.
    But simple things like requiring a dog to be on a lead when it's on the streets would be a start. Other options would be a license for owning a dog, but I think that's going a bit far since there are already too many dogs without a home. .

    For the former, I was under the impression it already was. if not it should be. At one point dog licenses did exist, what happened to them?
    But I'd be interested to know how complaints are dealt with, and what someone has to do for them to legally have their dog taken away. Can someone who has an ASBO as a result of violence still own a dog, for example?

    In this case a complaint had been made previously about the same dog. So it clearly wasn't dealt with that well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Littleali wrote:
    But any dog has the ability to snap and I dont think that because a dog is a certain breed, it is more or less likely to attack...

    :yes:
    However, when you listen to stories like this you feel for the people involved and condem the dog, but when the story unravels, and you hear that the dog had been complained about, been in fights with other dogs, and attacked the child at 4.30am...you need to start asking questions about the parents and their role in it all

    So you think that the owner is as much to blame as the dog? I agree with this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    So you think that the owner is as much to blame as the dog? I agree with this.
    kind of, like i said, its the nature nurture thing

    but if my dog had been complained about before and was aggressive, i`d seriously reconsider leaving my child in it's company :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On my 19th birthday I had a labrador rip my jeans all the way of me and tore my legs apart, walking around town only in my boxers and bloody legs. Thank fuck I managed to wave an ambulance down or I woulda been fucked. Dog's still out on the streets and all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Littleali wrote:
    but if my dog had been complained about before and was aggressive, i`d seriously reconsider leaving my child in it's company :)
    But it seems to me that if you've dismissed people's complaints in the past, and made no effort to get your dog properly trained, then you obviously don't believe there is a problem, or simply don't care.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But it seems to me that if you've dismissed people's complaints in the past, and made no effort to get your dog properly trained, then you obviously don't believe there is a problem, or simply don't care.
    that's kind of my point.....:thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/6227015.stm

    Another dog bite. This time a dog was running around attacking random children. What it doesn't mention is why the dog attacked them, could they have been "boys" and intimidated the dog?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When me and my sister were little girls my mum decided to get a dog and they got one called Jonus from a rescue home. He bit my sister only slightly and he was gone back to the home quick as lightening. My mum was attacked by a dog when she was a teenager as she was on her paper round, a big alsation jumped out of the garden over the fence and attacked her. Badly. She got asked if she wanted the dog put down and she said yes (it was like the street but one to where they lived) and somehow the owner creeped out of it by enrolling in some training course or something. NO EXCUSE for it. That dog should have been put down end of story.

    No dog which puts people around it at harm should be able to be kept as family pets.
    No human which puts people around it at harm should not be able to live in day to day world

    It really should be as simple as that imo
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ashlee wrote:
    When me and my sister were little girls my mum decided to get a dog and they got one called Jonus from a rescue home. He bit my sister only slightly and he was gone back to the home quick as lightening. My mum was attacked by a dog when she was a teenager as she was on her paper round, a big alsation jumped out of the garden over the fence and attacked her. Badly. She got asked if she wanted the dog put down and she said yes (it was like the street but one to where they lived) and somehow the owner creeped out of it by enrolling in some training course or something. NO EXCUSE for it. That dog should have been put down end of story.

    No dog which puts people around it at harm should be able to be kept as family pets.
    No human which puts people around it at harm should not be able to live in day to day world

    It really should be as simple as that imo
    The owner is most to blame as they should have made sure the dog couldn't get over the fence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you can't train a dog you're obviously not intelligent enough to keep one.

    People should have to take exams, or training courses to keep pet dogs so they know how to look after them and train them. Too many people seem to over feed their dogs or not raise them properly, it's not rocket science really...

    I just hope that they are more responsible and better at raising children than pets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Only so much blame can be put on the owner - a dog is an animal with a mind and instincts of it's own and you can never predict how they are going to behave. Yes, certainly owners should muzzle dogs that need it and keep them on a lead but ultimately it's the dog's fault if it bites someone.

    Pit Bull Terriers are prohibited under the Dangerous Dogs act for a reason, and ok so it may be "breed discrimination" or whatever, but they have been trained since the 1800's for bull fighting, and when that was banned dog fighting. They have an incredibly high pain threshhold and the will to fight to the death. They will also lock their jaws when they bite something, another thing they have been trained to do and not let go. I remember reading in the book written by the vet David Grant that pit bull owners would make their dogs hang on to a tree branch and beat them with sticks to train them to not let go.

    ANY dog is capable of harming someone/thing, and it generally isn't one breed more likely to than another, but in this case it really is. Characterstics that have been bred into them for generations aren't going to be forgotten by the dog.

    I do think that all dogs ought to be muzzled around children though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The dogs are like humans, if their raised properly they'll turn out right.

    There's a few around the town that have these dogs and they would only go for you if their owner set them on them, my mate got bit by one because the lad told the dog too and i've seen one of them kill a rottwieller.

    The dogs are dangerous if people want to make them dangerous, all this hype is sometimes unfound.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Pit Bull Terriers are prohibited under the Dangerous Dogs act for a reason,

    It's a stupid bit of legislation, rushed through in the 90's after the media went to war on a few breeds. Pit Bull is a generic term and not a specific breed. Often the term is used (incorrectly) to mean the American Pit Bull Terrier, but Staffordshire Bull Terriers, English Bull Terriers and come under the title of Pit Bull.
    and ok so it may be "breed discrimination" or whatever, but they have been trained since the 1800's for bull fighting, and when that was banned dog fighting.

    And Ridgebacks were bred for hunting Lions, Alsations as guard dogs, Wolfhounds as for hunting deer. Never have bull dogs been bred for hurting people.
    They will also lock their jaws when they bite something, another thing they have been trained to do and not let go.

    This is just a myth, and goes to show how easily people lap up this stuff
    I remember reading in the book written by the vet David Grant that pit bull owners would make their dogs hang on to a tree branch and beat them with sticks to train them to not let go.

    My dog hangs on to sticks hanging from trees and doesn't let go because she enjoys it, I don't have to beat her. My previous dog, A retriever did the same the same thing.
    Characterstics that have been bred into them for generations aren't going to be forgotten by the dog.

    That's nothing more than you making an assumption. Can you back that up with science?
    I do think that all dogs ought to be muzzled around children though.

    Guide Dogs?
    I don't. They should definately be kept on leads in busy public places, but muzzling every dog is too much I think.
    Weekender Offender 
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Shogun wrote:
    The dogs are like humans, if their raised properly they'll turn out right.
    The dogs are dangerous if people want to make them dangerous, all this hype is sometimes unfound.

    :yes:

    Punish the deed, not the breed.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny, how many people here walk staffs and find some people dragging themselves and children away? Thankfully not everyone lives with there heads up there arses and realises that not all dogs are bad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think anyone thinks that all dogs are bad, but I wouldn't really want to take the risk. It isn't the dogs I worry about, its the owners.

    I'd like to see much tighter controls on owning dogs, the licences should be brought back, and people who are unable or unwilling to raise dogs that behave should have them taken from them.

    These owners are the same charver filth that raise kids to trash everything, really, which says a lot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's not much difference between having a dog and having a child. You need to feed them, exercise them, entertain them, give them attention, look after their well being or health - or else you end up with a troubled distressed dog that's prone to lashing out. Not rocket science. Aparrantly, you don't even have to walk a dog - the RSPCA can't do anything about people who won't walk their dogs. They should tbh, dogs need to burn off energy to chill them out, especially certain types that need alot of exercise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    There's not much difference between having a dog and having a child. You need to feed them, exercise them, entertain them, give them attention, look after their well being or health - or else you end up with a troubled distressed dog that's prone to lashing out. Not rocket science. Aparrantly, you don't even have to walk a dog - the RSPCA can't do anything about people who won't walk their dogs. They should tbh, dogs need to burn off energy to chill them out, especially certain types that need alot of exercise.
    In all fairness an elderly women or someone with depression may not be able to leave the house. But yes other than that I can think off, there is no exception.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's still no exception. Fair enough it's circumstances out of their control, but when you're too old or too sick to care for an animal, then it should be cared for by someone else, or put down.
Sign In or Register to comment.