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Rail fares

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
Rail Passengers face fare rises

Bollocks to this!!
As if it's not expensive enough already and I get 30% off!
And the Oyster single fare now is the same for students as it is for any oyster holder, we are supposed to get 30% off.
Fuckers!!!
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Comments

  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,265 I am one with The Mix
    The rises are only slightly above inflation. If you want to pay for expansion in the network, new trains, new carriges etc then fares have to go up.

    I know up here in Yorkshire our fares have gone up by 6% - which in turn has helped to pay for extra carridges on trains (think the figure was around 2000 extra seats).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And that's why I'm buying a car. So much for encouraging people to take public transport.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    The rises are only slightly above inflation. If you want to pay for expansion in the network, new trains, new carriges etc then fares have to go up.

    I know up here in Yorkshire our fares have gone up by 6% - which in turn has helped to pay for extra carridges on trains (think the figure was around 2000 extra seats).

    bollocks, its paying for the bosses big fuck off house. Re-nationalise the lot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    bollocks, its paying for the bosses big fuck off house. Re-nationalise the lot.

    :rolleyes: Is it? How do you explain what's happening with GNER then? They're rolling in money aren't they? (You might have a point with London Underground though, Ken's beloved Bob Kiley certainly raked it in).

    And in real terms how much cheaper were fares under British Rail? Were they any cheaper?

    Currently, particularly on Virgin and GNER I've noticed, you can get very cheap fares if you book well enough in advance. (And the Young Persons Railcard also helps). Such special fares were much rarer under British Rail, the business savvy of filling up trains perhaps didn't occur to BR.

    Re-nationalising the railways would be a step backwards that would not benefit passengers. (Greedy unions would cash in no doubt though).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    London buses have gone up from £1.50 to £2 :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    bollocks, its paying for the bosses big fuck off house. Re-nationalise the lot.

    Actually, its the Government that are insisting on the fare increases in order to use market forces to ease congestion and overcrowding on the network. That's the very same Government which would be in charge of a nationalised network.

    But its far easier to show zero understanding and blame the mythical bogeyman "fat cat boss", isn't it.

    Interestingly fares on Tyne and Wear Metro have gone up by about 10% in the last year. Guess who owns and operates that (clue: its the government).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes: Is it? How do you explain what's happening with GNER then? They're rolling in money aren't they?

    That's far more to do with their parent company which is suffering big losses on the international shipping market, the railway is doing fine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bus fares here have gone up by 20p to £1.40 which I think is too much. Every single year it goes up either 10p or 20p. Look at all the fuss motorists make when petrol goes up a few pence.

    I used to have a bus pass which was about £12 a week (and then had to pay extra to go on trains, about £4 return to Birmingham). Now I have a scooter and pay £4 a week in petrol. Something not quite right there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    Bus fares here have gone up by 20p to £1.40 which I think is too much. Every single year it goes up either 10p or 20p. Look at all the fuss motorists make when petrol goes up a few pence.

    I used to have a bus pass which was about £12 a week (and then had to pay extra to go on trains, about £4 return to Birmingham). Now I have a scooter and pay £4 a week in petrol. Something not quite right there.
    In London we pay £2 for bus fair.

    I remember the days of only paying £1. (That makes me sound old :blush: )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    In London we pay £2 for bus fair.

    I remember the days of only paying £1. (That makes me sound old :blush: )

    Ha, I remember paying 16p to get to school!

    It was £1 last time I was in London too. Mind you don't all under 16s get free bus travel there? Why don't they scrap that and give them half price like everywhere else in the country?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    London buses have gone up from £1.50 to £2 :(

    Which is how much is sometimes costs me unless it's before 9am or after 3pm. In which case, it costs anything from 60p to £1.20 depending on what bus I get and whether the bus driver charges me for a child single or a school single)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    £4 just to get into central london? Do they think we've got money to waste? Also what about people in situations where the oyster isn't beneficial to them?

    They said the oyster prices are going to freeze- yea lets see how long that lasts. It already costs me £32 quid a week to get to work and back! I remember the 70p for adults days- ahhh the good old days
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    foxysoxy wrote:
    £4 just to get into central london? Do they think we've got money to waste?

    If you get charged £4 just to go into Zone 1 then you must be starting way way out, which means you are traveling a long way for not all that much. Having said that I think more of the money for the Tube (and rail) should come from general taxation and not from the travelers, and not pissing money away on PPI or PPP schemes would be a good idea too.

    ETA - I've just checked and if you are using Oyster then you shouldnt get charged £4 a journey even if you are starting in zone 6, the highest fare is £3.50.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    If you get charged £4 just to go into Zone 1 then you must be starting way way out, which means you are traveling a long way for not all that much. Having said that I think more of the money for the Tube (and rail) should come from general taxation and not from the travelers, and not pissing money away on PPI or PPP schemes would be a good idea too.

    ETA - I've just checked and if you are using Oyster then you shouldnt get charged £4 a journey even if you are starting in zone 6, the highest fare is £3.50.

    Well that's the thing, the improvements are supposed to come from taxation, and especially in light of the Olympic games. I agree with the PPP schemes, like they've got on the tube where Balfour Beatty is doing the maintenance and upgrading and I can't I think Amec is doing the stations or whatever... The PFI scehemes, not so sure, it eliminates competition so the charging companies can push up prices all the time...So from tube fares, whoever gets the money, they already get £4.5 billion a year...what are they doing with that money???

    Yeah Zone 6 to 1 single oyster charge should be £3.50.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    I agree with the PPP schemes, like they've got on the tube where Balfour Beatty is doing the maintenance and upgrading.

    Because they have a great record dont they, arent they already really behind in their work on the Tube?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    Because they have a great record dont they, arent they already really behind in their work on the Tube?

    Let me rephrase. I like the idea that PPP contracts bring.
    Yes Balfour Beatty have an awful record in maintaining the tube and there's been a few inquiries about why that is, I think there's one ongoing.
    You wonder why for a company that's the 3rd largest construction company in the UK and 15th in the world and with the largest rail infrastructure in the world!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have heard rail fares are going up where I am too, not sure by how much.

    It costs me 3.05 (before prices up) return. This is like 15. 25 a week just for me to get to college and back.

    If I could drive then I would drive but there is no where to park but it would save me freezing my arse of waiting for bloody trains that are one every hour! I think if they want us to use public transport and not pollute the air and what not they should bloody well stop putting the prices up and make it possible to use it. If it goes up much more god knows what I am going to do!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don’t like the idea of pricing people out of being able to use public transport. It just punishes the less well-off, as usual.

    It seems like there are conflicting stories flying about. The shadow Transport Secretary is accusing the government of using pricing to manipulate how people use public transport; the train companies say it is so they can provide a better and more comprehensive service; the government says they’re looking into over-crowding on the trains, but it’s not their call. I wonder what is actually going on?

    Also, what is the deal with this Oyster Card? It appears to offer cheaper fares to people with one, but how do you get one? Are there any stipulations as to who can own one? If not, then what’s the reason behind their existence? Data collection?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also, what is the deal with this Oyster Card? It appears to offer cheaper fares to people with one, but how do you get one? Are there any stipulations as to who can own one? If not, then what’s the reason behind their existence? Data collection?

    Basically its a bit like a pay as you go phone, you top it up with £20 (or a season ticket) and then it takes money off you for each journey.

    The reason they do this is they want to stop people using ticket desks because they are expensive to run. So, now instead of getting lots of singles, people put £20 or so on the oyster and only top up at the machine once in a while.

    And yes, there is data collection as to where you go, but you can get one without giving your name.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oyster cards are electronic- rather than being a printed ticket they act as a key fob through tube ticket barriers and on bus ticket machines. They cost less to operate, they're more efficient at getting people about, and so they are cheaper to get people to use them.

    As for overcrowding, the Government won't pay for new trains (First TransPennine had their order cut from 58 to 51 trains by the DfT) but won't give long enough franchises for private operators to take a risk on paying for their own trains. The biggest drain on finances are the Rolling Stock owners (the ROSCOs) who charge rent on the trains, and they are the black hole that a lot of money pours through.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When you go on local Central trains services, you have to endure top volume TV, it's incredibly annoying and intrusive.

    I would have thought the advertising from that brings a fair amount of income.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone can have an Oyster Card (pay as you go)...as far as I know.
    Go to a tube station and get one.
    Yes I guess your movements can be tracked through it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    s for overcrowding, the Government won't pay for new trains (First TransPennine had their order cut from 58 to 51 trains by the DfT) but won't give long enough franchises for private operators to take a risk on paying for their own trains. The biggest drain on finances are the Rolling Stock owners (the ROSCOs) who charge rent on the trains, and they are the black hole that a lot of money pours through.

    You’ll have to excuse my woeful ignorance on this topic, but I thought that the rail network was privatised? I would have presumed that meant that private companies are responsible for how they run their services, however, it seems that the government still have a large (almost final) say in how things are run. To what extent does Capital Connect (for example) have a say in how it runs its trains? Also, does Capital Connect just rent its trains from someone else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Great Train Robbery continues for another year, with the same old tired promises and excuses from the train operating companies about forthcoming improvements to the service and new rolling stock.

    It is truly astonishing that year after year they say exactly the same words, and year after year people swallow it whole without stopping to think what improvements to the service they have actually seen in the previous 12 months.

    The only noticeable improvements are the extension of the swimming pool at the chairman's house, and the new rolling stock bought would be the brand new Bentley Continental sitting in his garage.

    All of the following from last week's issue of Private Eye (not found online sadly):

    - First Great Western has just axed prime commuter services to Exeter and Swansea and is shortening many of its trains. The company also tried to justify fare hikes of up to an incredible 12.6% by claiming that some of the money raised by these fare changes goes directly to the government. In fact the company pockets £95m subsidy this year and £43m for next year, and won't pay a penny in premiums until 2009-10

    - South West Trains tried to justify its own fare hikes by saying 'most train companies on the commuter lines in London are now paying the government big premiums and so are being forced to rise fares sharply'. In fact SWT is not paying any premiums at all. It is getting a £61m subsidy this year.

    - Virgin trains tried to play the statistics game and claimed travelling on the west coast main line costs an average of 17p a mile, compared with 44p a mile costs by car. But the car is ready to use when you want it. If you want that flexibility and convenience on Virgin trains you cannot depend on the few off-peak services that offer cheap fares. You will end up paying 55p per mile instead.

    Etc etc etc...

    Finally, let's take a look at the London- Edinburgh route and compare it with some of our European neighbours:

    STANDARD OFF-PEAK SINGLE FARES

    London-Edinburgh (332 miles) £97.20
    Berlin-Munich (312 miles) £70.75
    Paris-Bordeaux (310 miles) £47.50
    Madrid-Barcelona (314 miles) £42.85

    Needless to say our European neighbours have high-speed trains running on high-speed lines and would be well on their way to arrive back at the origin station by the time the British train manages to pull into Edinburgh.


    Enough said.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    - First Great Western has just axed prime commuter services to Exeter and Swansea and is shortening many of its trains. The company also tried to justify fare hikes of up to an incredible 12.6% by claiming that some of the money raised by these fare changes goes directly to the government. In fact the company pockets £95m subsidy this year and £43m for next year, and won't pay a penny in premiums until 2009-10

    Exeter and Swansea just happen to be the two places i traveled to by train the most last year. Every time the so called fast train ended up stuck behind a slow train and an hour late both ways. :grump: I don't see how they could cut them either, they were always packed when i was on them!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    I know up here in Yorkshire our fares have gone up by 6% - which in turn has helped to pay for extra carridges on trains (think the figure was around 2000 extra seats).

    I think you are being swindled. A simple loan to pay for the extra carriages was required and then they could recuperate the repayments through the extra travellers they then attract. This way they get YOU to pay for the carriages AND make more money for themselves. As another poster has claimed, this is just the 'fat cats' getting richer ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To what extent does Capital Connect (for example) have a say in how it runs its trains? Also, does Capital Connect just rent its trains from someone else?

    Capital Connect, like all TOCs, actually own nothing. The trains are rented from a ROSCO (for a big fat fee), the tracks are rented from the Government (for a big fat fee) and the stations are rented from the Government (for a big fat fee).

    There is a minimum service that the TOC must operate, as part of their franchise, and if they wish to operate new services they must get permission from the Government.

    I'm afraid Private Eye isn't quite telling the full story, either. First Great Western's mainline operations have been operating with a premium for many years, and still are doing, the subsidy that FGW receive is because they have been forced to take on most of the South West's rural train services as well. The subsidies being received are lower than they were before, and will continue to fall. Trains aren't being shortened, either.

    The same is the case with SWT.

    Comparisions with Europe are on dodgy ground as well as most European railways operate at huge losses, funded by the public purse. Fine if you think that should be the case, but in the UK it is not the case.

    The problem is that so few people actually understand how the railway network operates, and so are led down the garden path by a hopelessly biased media creating unrealistic expectations and casting false aspersions. In just about every marker going the private network is better than the nationalised network we used to have; there is room for improvement, but who is going to fund it? Every TGV-style line built could build 400 hospitals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just wait until the water companies want to raise fees again for "improvements".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Comparisions with Europe are on dodgy ground as well as most European railways operate at huge losses, funded by the public purse. Fine if you think that should be the case, but in the UK it is not the case.
    Which is fine, but then they can't complain when people get in their cars instead. And they can't increase the cost of motoring to "encourage" people to use public transport more, if the cost of public transport is constantly going up.
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