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Condy Says the war in iraq is worth the cost of money and lives

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I dunno if any of you saw this but this horrible annoying excuse for a woman really makes my blood boil.

Apart from the fact that she clearly is talking out of her ass and doesnt' have the faintest grasp of poititics

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    She may be saying that because it hasn`t cost her HER life or HER money (probably the opposite in the case of the money, a nice little earner)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Iraq's a terrible mess right now and it's difficult to imagine the profound losses to lead to a good outcome. I've never been pro the war but have agreed to certain parts of the Iraqi war's casus belli.

    What should they do now then? Pull out? It's pretty messy right now, someone has to control the shit.

    I feel hesitant to air my opinions, and I'm surprised that I am actually posting this, because it's such a delicate issue and I've noticed a lot of anti-American sentiment on these boards. When I'm having a discussing with my family, I wouldn't call Bush an asshole, and I wouldn't criticize the Bush administration because that would just result in another, heated discussion and nothing good will have come out of it. It's the same on these boards: I wouldn't say that I'm pro the Iraq war, because I'd be cut into pieces.

    My humble opinion: I believe the Iraq war was a necessary action. I might as well stick in my favourite statement here: it's always easy to be the general after the war. It's quite typical to have a go at the politicians because they're plain idiots. Sometimes I wonder, because everyone has such adamant opinions regarding certain matters, would the world be a better place if you were in charge?

    About the article, I have thought that she's a good politician in the past, exhibiting great charisma and personality. I don't understand why you'd call her a horrible excuse for a woman. She's simply holding another opinion, which, in my opinion, is not that ludicrous to me. I'd never agree with her on this opinion though -- the war's losses and the suffering is too profound to be balanced. But heck, she's not stupid.

    ETA: I am, in fact, in harmony with the anti-Bush sentiment. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Errr she said that the Arab-Isreli conflict wasn't the key issue in the Middle East at the moment despite people on all sides (including Tony Blaire) telling her that you will never get peace in the region unless you sort it out.

    I admit that the middle east is a very complex political problem but i dont' see how anyone can say oh once iraq is all nice and strong all the other problems will resovle themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My humble opinion: I believe the Iraq war was a necessary action. I might as well stick in my favourite statement here: it's always easy to be the general after the war.

    Actually, most posters on this board were anti the war long before it even actually began ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My humble opinion: I believe the Iraq war was a necessary action

    necessary action to achieve what?

    to stop an attack on this country in 45 mins? ( :lol: ), depose an evil dictator? (that we put in power), take away his WMDs (to be fair he did pay us for them), or bring democracy and freedom to the nation (you can't vote if you're limbs are spread across the road)....

    or to setup a stronghold in the middle-east as oil reserves dwindle, stop saddam trading in euros, boost the failing US economy and stockmarkets for a few more years with wartime spending, and create instability in the region as a pretext to building permanent military bases and 'keeping the peace' for years to come?

    i wonder....:rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the Iraq debate is pointless because the anti- iraq war protestors will never see the pro-war arguement or reasons for it and so the debate goes round and round and never gets anywhere, decending into name calling and grandeous, over the top cliches.

    thats just my humble opinion lol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wyetry wrote:
    this horrible annoying excuse for a woman really makes my blood boil.

    I like her. I hope she goes for the Republican nomination in 2008, she would make a fantastic president.
    Wyetry wrote:
    Apart from the fact that she clearly is talking out of her ass and doesnt' have the faintest grasp of poititics

    I'm pretty sure Dr. Rice has a very good grasp of politics and she's academically very well qualified.

    Wyetry wrote:
    Errr she said that the Arab-Isreli conflict wasn't the key issue in the Middle East at the moment despite people on all sides (including Tony Blaire) telling her that you will never get peace in the region unless you sort it out.

    The Arab-Israeli conflict has no strong link to the War on Terror and Iraq.
    Wyetry wrote:
    I admit that the middle east is a very complex political problem but i dont' see how anyone can say oh once iraq is all nice and strong all the other problems will resovle themselves.

    Indeed. And whatever happens between Israel and the Palestinians it will have little impact on Iraq and vice versa.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    necessary action to achieve what?

    In theory, remove the tyrant. Void his genocidial campaign. Endeavour to establish a democratic environment, for the welfare of its citizens. They lived under shite conditions under Saddam Insane, I cannot and will never say that we should live and accept such problems. What were we to do then? Use diplomacy to make Insane "realise" his wrongdoing and maybe this ethical novelty might suddenly make him a good person.

    Now, the war, that I am against. The execution sucked big time and nobody was prepared to clean up their mess. Plus the scandales and everything about the oil, I understand why it has become such a controversial issue. Insurgency, sectarian violence, the terrorism, the suffering -- everything that could go wrong basically went wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whether she's intelligent or qualified is of little importance. She's an unashamed warmongering neocon mouthpiece. Unless she was to have a change of heart tomorrow and admit 'we were wrong, we lied to you, we've acted disgracefully for the last 5 years and made the world a far more dangerous place', she will remain a deeply unpleasant nasty shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In theory, remove the tyrant. Void his genocidial campaign. Endeavour to establish a democratic environment, for the welfare of its citizens. They lived under shite conditions under Saddam Insane, I cannot and will never say that we should live and accept such problems. What were we to do then? Use diplomacy to make Insane "realise" his wrongdoing and maybe this ethical novelty might suddenly make him a good person.

    Now, the war, that I am against. The execution sucked big time and nobody was prepared to clean up their mess. Plus the scandales and everything about the oil, I understand why it has become such a controversial issue. Insurgency, sectarian violence, the terrorism, the suffering -- everything that could go wrong basically went wrong.

    war is always messy i'm afraid, it was a controversial issue long before any of the shit hit the fan.....it's naive to think the motives for war were as altruistic as you suggest, surely they could have done it in '91? We knew what a nutcase he was back then....if you look at the history of american military intervention and proxy wars over the last 50 years it speaks for itself, they've put more monsters in power than vice versa so they're not that thoughtful.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The fact that they have so many US troops in iraq, makes me wonder what the hell they were all doing between the last gulf war and the invasion of iraq, sitting at home drinking tea and eating biscuits?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    She may be saying that because it hasn`t cost her HER life or HER money (probably the opposite in the case of the money, a nice little earner)
    Condy is a politician. What she is doing is called double speak. She will not, nor anyone in the current administration, admit that the Iraq war is not going very well. Politicians, at most times, do not stray from partisan lines, otherwise they get ‘sacked’ or rather ‘ascked’ to get fuck out.

    Of course, this statement can be contested. While Iraq isn’t stable, and little oil is being extracted from the place, the war (defense) industry is making a profit out of the on going fighting in the country.
    I've never been pro the war but have agreed to certain parts of the Iraqi war's casus belli.

    What should they do now then? Pull out? It's pretty messy right now, someone has to control the shit.

    It's quite typical to have a go at the politicians because they're plain idiots.
    And what justifications are you talking about? That Saddam Hussein had links with Al Qaeda? Or they have weapons of mass deception, I mean distraction, I mean destruction (that’s it!)? Or was it because Saddam Hussein was a real bad guy, who oppressed, and killed his own people? The last one of course is highly hypocritical. There are plenty of other leaders/dictators who overtly oppress his own people and fail to adhere to Human Rights.

    Well isn’t that the beauty of it? Say even if people realise that the war was unjustified, the military cannot just pull out or to use the trendier term ‘cut and run’. That’s the beauty of it. Deceive people for the reasons to do an action, and by the time people realise the truth, its too late to back out. What the hell can you do?

    I don’t think that politicians are plain idiots though. who ever has the final word on whatever things, at the end of the day, the people are deceive, the politicians get their way, and we still vote for them.
    Wyetry wrote:
    Errr she said that the Arab-Isreli conflict wasn't the key issue in the Middle East at the moment despite people on all sides (including Tony Blaire) telling her that you will never get peace in the region unless you sort it out.
    This is like the magician. The magician makes you look at the left hand while the right hand is doing the trick. Is all.
    In theory, remove the tyrant. Void his genocidial campaign.
    This is so simplistric, and is probably not the ultimate reason for going into iraq.


    Look man… its all about the money!!!!!

    MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS!!!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In theory, remove the tyrant. Void his genocidial campaign. Endeavour to establish a democratic environment, for the welfare of its citizens. They lived under shite conditions under Saddam Insane, I cannot and will never say that we should live and accept such problems. What were we to do then? Use diplomacy to make Insane "realise" his wrongdoing and maybe this ethical novelty might suddenly make him a good person.


    Unless you systematically go around the world removing all despots and un-democratic governments, this argument holds no water.

    As for Cody, I'm split. I do love this snippet from the ABC News article: "Rice said the Bush administration should be remembered for far more than the Iraq war. She ticked off foreign policy commitments and accomplishments including increased aid to fight AIDS and malaria in Africa and a peace deal ending two decades of North-South warfare in Sudan." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2744238
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sav wrote:
    Unless you systematically go around the world removing all despots and un-democratic governments, this argument holds no water.

    I get this point, but does it really suffice to say that nobody should do anything in Iraq, because that would give them an obligation to go around and do that everywhere? Sure sounds strange to me. I again am not saying I liked the war, I just said it could be justified on certain points.

    Of course, the justification had many flaws, and I'm only treating the war in a fundamental manner. In reality, it doesn't work that way (shocking). I'm just sad that it turned out this way and disappointed, but definately not surprised.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Think about all the soldiers that were/are in Iraq and the families of the ones that died.
    Do you think they would like to hear that their sacrifices weren't worth jack shit?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    Do you think they would like to hear that their sacrifices weren't worth jack shit?

    Nope but the truth hurts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    Think about all the soldiers that were/are in Iraq and the families of the ones that died.
    Do you think they would like to hear that their sacrifices weren't worth jack shit?

    I think they probably already know it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Both of you are right, the truth hurts and they most probably already know it.
    However, imagine what it would mean for a person in a high position in the government to come out and say that all the efforts of the soldiers were worthless. Even if that person does hold that opinion, they can't come out and say it as they will either be sacked or be forced to quit, in other words political suicide.
    The soldiers, however much they might know that being in Iraq is like being in hell, they would certainly feel that them being there had a purpose otherwise they wouldn't be in the army.
    And I am sure that the majority of them have actually done some good there, inconsequential of how small their contribution might be in the big scheme of things.
    We can't take the word of one person to be the representation of a whole country, can we, or the whole government. And we even might lambast the person that said it and NOT agree with them, but again they are expressing either their opinion or the opinion of their boss which, like in every company, if your boss tells you to do something, you will go and do it or you are fired.

    Maybe this doesn't make sense, but I can see why she's gone and said that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    Think about all the soldiers that were/are in Iraq and the families of the ones that died.
    Do you think they would like to hear that their sacrifices weren't worth jack shit?
    Yes. Because that would mean someone was responsible and guilty for their deaths.

    The US government, Bush, Rumsfeld, Condy & co., lied, lied and then lied some more when trying to justify going to war on Iraq. US troops were sent to Iraq under false pretenses. Bush, Rumseld, Condy & co have murdered not only the several hundred thousand Iraqis slaughtered so far, but the 2,500 odd US soldiers killed there as well.

    As such they are traitors to their nation. Anyone who is a real patriot in America (as opposed to the Ann Coulter school of patriotism) will want to see the current US government not only kicked out of office in its entirety but those cunts tried in a Court of Law for high treason and left to rot in jail like the mass murdering scum they are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting to note this is the "War in Iraq" and not the "War against Iraq"


    How can the US ever win a war when they don't even know who the enemy is?

    When it first started the enemy was Saddam and his army, they've been defeated now who is the enemy?

    The only way to "Win" is to start building new cities and schools, etc and showing people there's a better more peaceful way of life. Most people just want to live normals lives in peace which is why you often see millions of people walking from one war torn country in Africa to another where there's more peace ..

    The American's can't fight their way out of Iraq, but they can succeed if they build their way out.

    If it was me in charge I'd section off a huge section of land and within it build a new city with new homes, schools, running water, mosques to pray in and I bet the people would be lining up to move there and live in peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NB Just a point but it's one worth making. Most of the fighting in Iraq doesn't actually involve the US at all. It isn't against them, they are not the targets and therefore there isn't a "winning" issue for them there. Most of their role now is trying to keep factions apart.

    And yes, it's worth every penny and every life. "Freedom" is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And yes, it's worth every penny and every life. "Freedom" is.

    While I admit the claim that we all have our own universe, I am confident that my idea of "freedom" is quite different than yours.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    While I admit the claim that we all have our own universe, I am confident that my idea of "freedom" is quite different than yours.

    Hence the inverted commas Mr Seeker...
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