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Another day, another innocent verdict in rape case...

*sigh*

I don't want to appear like I think all the defendants do it, but my opinion that this shows yet again just how appalling the rape conviction rate in this country is.

That said, I appreciate that its hard to convict when the victim has killed herself.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Where's the rapist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    That said, I appreciate that its hard to convict when the victim has killed herself.

    But its not just raping her which he's been cleared of, there were four counts of indecent assault on other people as well. If he's got off on all of it I'm inclined to believe he's not guilty. Of course thats not to say that how rape is handled isnt deeply flawed at the moment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    *sigh*

    I don't want to appear like I think all the defendants do it, but my opinion that this shows yet again just how appalling the rape conviction rate in this country is.

    That said, I appreciate that its hard to convict when the victim has killed herself.


    mind if i ask how you propose we actually prove the person done it? that's the difficulty at court level - the only things i can suggest are to improve the counselling, and to give the victim more help to improve their confidence, the police's attitude doesn't help half the time either :s
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    cunt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who's to say he really did it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    squeal wrote:
    Who's to say he really did it.

    The story is quite compelling and I find it hard to believe that he's completely innocent of those accusations. But as you say, innocent until proven guilty.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    his daughter did, and several suicide attempts later she finally manages it.
    Obviously that makes it a lot harder to convict, but obviously hes got what he wanted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    *sigh*

    I don't want to appear like I think all the defendants do it, but my opinion that this shows yet again just how appalling the rape conviction rate in this country is.

    That said, I appreciate that its hard to convict when the victim has killed herself.

    :rolleyes:

    Really Kermit do you ever get tired of this?

    Its perfectly clear that you do assume that all the defendants are guilty, illustrated by the fact that every time there is a high profile rape case you post a thread bemoaning the fact that the accused wasn't tortured and jailed for life. You obviously feel strongly on the issue, which isn't bad in itself, but your prejudice against anybody accused of rape does you no credit.

    Its all been said before. None of us know whether he is or is not a rapist, but the court found him innocent (a court case at which you were not present and thus which you do not know all the facts and arguments). Rape is probably the most difficult case for the judicial process. etc. etc.

    And calling somebody a rapist when they have been cleared by a court of law is slander and illegal in itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's a major claim to make after falling out with your dad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    Really Kermit do you ever get tired of this?

    Its perfectly clear that you do assume that all the defendants are guilty, illustrated by the fact that every time there is a high profile rape case you post a thread bemoaning the fact that the accused wasn't tortured and jailed for life. You obviously feel strongly on the issue, which isn't bad in itself, but your prejudice against anybody accused of rape does you no credit.

    Its all been said before. None of us know whether he is or is not a rapist, but the court found him innocent (a court case at which you were not present and thus which you do not know all the facts and arguments). Rape is probably the most difficult case for the judicial process. etc. etc.

    And calling somebody a rapist when they have been cleared by a court of law is slander and illegal in itself.

    But what about the number of rapes that aren't convicted in this country?

    I can see your point about accusing somebody of rape though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You only have to listen to the music these middle aged white guys listen to to know that raping their daughters and getting away with it is merely part of their culture.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    carlito wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    Really Kermit do you ever get tired of this?

    Its perfectly clear that you do assume that all the defendants are guilty, illustrated by the fact that every time there is a high profile rape case you post a thread bemoaning the fact that the accused wasn't tortured and jailed for life. You obviously feel strongly on the issue, which isn't bad in itself, but your prejudice against anybody accused of rape does you no credit.

    Its all been said before. None of us know whether he is or is not a rapist, but the court found him innocent (a court case at which you were not present and thus which you do not know all the facts and arguments). Rape is probably the most difficult case for the judicial process. etc. etc.

    And calling somebody a rapist when they have been cleared by a court of law is slander and illegal in itself.

    :yes: to all that.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lea_uk wrote:
    It's a major claim to make after falling out with your dad.
    :yes: i don't think someone would accuse their dad of rape and eventually kill themselves over an argument tbh
    but who knows
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah probably teenage angst or something.
    Bloody kids. Little monkeys accusing their daddy of raping them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    :yes: i don't think someone would accuse their dad of rape and eventually kill themselves over an argument tbh
    but who knows
    Yeah that's what i thought.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Thack god he was tried by an actual jury on actual evidence, rather than simple assumptions made by people who's only knowledge of the case comes from a BBC article.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah probably teenage angst or something.
    Bloody kids. Little monkeys accusing their daddy of raping them.

    Hey, Suzy, I assume thats ironic/sarcastic and aimed at me.

    I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm not saying he did. It sounds like an extremely fucked up case, and a very complicated one considering the child's intelligence (genius?) and the pressure she was under.

    All I'm saying is that it doesn't help the cause that Kermit is - quite rightly - trying to advance to accuse everyone who is acquitted of rape of being guilty. In fact, it makes people who might otherwise be undecided even more skeptical to see a prejudice universally applied.

    None of us were in that court-room and none of us are fully aware of the facts of the case. We are in no position to judge. I agree that the amount of rape (primarily men) get away with is disgraceful but taking a blanket approach here is totally counterproductive. Discuss the obvious problem of rape if you will but don't drag it down to the lowest common denominator like Kermit has been doing.

    Finally: Kermit, like I said you obviously feel strongly about this (which is why you employ this tactic) and its admirable that you care about the welfare of women and the travesty of rape. Its understandable that you should let emotion get the better of you on this issue, but you have to understand that the attitude you're taking does not help the case you are making. :o
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit - what on earth makes you think he's guilty? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because the girl made repeated claims, and her mother believed her, and the same girl then made repeated suicide attempts before actually managing it.

    It's enough to make me think that the dead girl was probably telling the truth. But there isn't enough concrete evidence to convict because the victim committed suicide and can't testify from beyond the grave.

    I actually don't think all high-profile rape claims are true- I didn't think the Hamiltons were rapists (even before the woman was convicted of lying), I didn't think Craig Charles was and I don't think that John Leslie is (twat that he is). I also don't really think that Cristiano Ronaldo or van Persie did it either (much as I'd love to see Ronaldo get put in the slammer for 15 years).

    In this case I happen to believe that he did do it, because all the actions of the girl and her mother and her friends all point towards him doing everything that she said he did.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1 person thinking that "he did it" though doesn't give you the right to talk as if he actually got convicted of it....

    If the evidence was that much, then surely any normal jury would of found a conviction?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair Kermit - I have changed the title of the thread - he was found innocent, and regardless of what it looks like, you can say you believe he was a rapist - but not imply with the title that's been proven.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    You only have to listen to the music these middle aged white guys listen to to know that raping their daughters and getting away with it is merely part of their culture.

    erm.. care to elaborate?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the evidence was that much, then surely any normal jury would of found a conviction?

    It was proven in a study not so long ago that if the woman was drunk- even if all the other facts were the same- then the jury was more likely to find the defendant innocent.

    Juries are made of "ordinary" people, and "ordinary" people think that a drunk victim negates rape.

    The story was in Metro, I can't find a link, I'll have a root around later.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    look for the amnesty report kermit - that's who ran it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The best I can find is this, but that isn't quite what Metro reported.

    Pretty fucking damning nonetheless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    It was proven in a study not so long ago that if the woman was drunk- even if all the other facts were the same- then the jury was more likely to find the defendant innocent.

    Is this anything to do with what a judge said earlier this year about if a woman is drunk and gets raped, she wanted it or something? Or am I thinking of something totally different?:confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Juries are made of "ordinary" people, and "ordinary" people think that a drunk victim negates rape.
    Compared to the other group of "ordinary people" who assume that because a man has been charged he's guilty, and go posting their outrage about it on a website when they didn't actually attend the trial or hear all of the circumstances surrounding it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who assumed that because he was charged he was guilty? There are scores of people charged with rape who I don't for one second think did it- but since you mention it, yes, I do happen to think that most people charged with rape probably did do it. Unless you think that the conviction rate is realistic- that 94% of women who allege rape are liars- then you'd agree with me.

    I assumed that this man was guilty because his daughter made repeated claims of rape and sexual abuse- believed by her mother and her friends- and then went and fucking killed herself after several failed attempts.

    And I assume, from experience, that the reason he's been acquitted is because she managed to commit suicide after failing on several previous occasions. No victim in the witness box = acquittal. Because she isn't here to say he did it then the evidence is largely circumstantial, leaving a large area for a moderately-skilled defence barrister to show doubt, and that is why he will have been acquitted.

    I doubt his daughter killed herself for shits and giggles.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Because she isn't here to say he did it then the evidence is largely circumstantial, leaving a large area for a moderately-skilled defence barrister to show doubt, and that is why he will have been acquitted.

    Which is what made your original staement about his guilt inappropriate.
    I doubt his daughter killed herself for shits and giggles.

    I doubt that she did either. Having said that it's not unheard of for a child to kill themsleves over something lesser and we don't have enough information about her exitsing medical state - depression/stress cannot be rules out.

    Just because she made accusations and then killed herself doesn't make him anymore guilt (although it does raise the risk of that) and so, as you say, it's all circumstantial.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Who assumed that because he was charged he was guilty?
    Hmm, I think your original statement of "another rapist gets away with it" might be a clue. :rolleyes:
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