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You were spot on!
Erm - you don't know this weekends lucky lottery numbers do you?
well, somewhat, yes. I do believe organized religions are doing very little good for people at the moment.
I have no trouble with peoples personal believing in whatever created who etc, but what makes me angry is the fact that there are people in the world who are manipulating these beliefs to their own end, to incite hatred of others, and to twist the words of whichever religion in such a way that it makes the followers under the manipulators influence go and kill people.
ideally, I'm pretty sure all major religious texts main aim is for everyone to get along with each other nicely, which no one can argue is a bad thing, should they believe in an omnipresent super being or not. but this is quite obviously not working.
it also annoys me how the US has used the fact that "[christian] god is on our side" to justify government actions... I mean what is this, the crusades?
you can see why some atheists will have a superiority complex, because they think organized religions are terribly misguided, in that there are those being manipulated by people using the guise of "religion" to make them hate whoever they like. Manipulating people is much easier if it's using something they strongly believe in.
being a bit of an asshole. It's finals week at school so I'm running on little sleep.
If I did, I would definitely tell you, long as ya gave me a cut o' the winnings.:yes:
You have no possible way of ever 'measuring' that. Most of the good derived from religion will never be tangible anyway because of its own nature. And this is what bothers me of the said atheist's superiority complex - that because they can't see it or understand it, they fail to acknowledge and respect the importance their religion has for millions of people.
I fully share your hatred of leaders using organised religion to fulfill their own selfish intrests - but that shouldn't in any case take the right away of anyone professing a religion and belonging to an organised religious group or church. I'm seriously shocked by the amount of people who actually propose to ban organised religion - it would be one of the most intolerant and dictatorial measures ever to be taken, not to mention a Human rights violation.
There are extremists everywhere and there's no real difference between killing for religion, or being a communist dictator.
I have no conceptions to ban religion, I think any attempt to do so would be a very bad idea. just like you said, you share my feelings about those using it for their own selfish mean. I fully recognize the importance religion has for many people, but because of this importance it is a much more potent tool for people to use to manipulate the masses.
I cant help but feel dislike for the tool itself when it is being seen to used in the way it has in the past, and now for bad things... just one must have a certain dislike for the gun even though it is the wielder that uses it.
eventually (I hope) people will realise they will never convince another religion theirs is better and give up on trying.
the funny thing is, atheists are now "organizing" too. I cant stand it, what's the point in it if it's just going to end up the same sans-god? here's a quote I found on tinternet somewhere, (here, but I only read the first two posts):
... it's just the brewing's for more trouble :no:
I never meant to imply you were the ones proposing to ban organised religion. Both of you are level-headed and smart enough to know better. But I have heard people proposing it and wishing it, and I was ranting I guess about those people. Sorry if I caused any misundertandings.
Yeah sure, and then send it to the 'I no longer believe' office at the Vatican. Or better yet, to the Complaints Departments at The Vatican. I expect they're sitting with arms folded at that office!;)
I took no offence from your statement bluewisdom
I was thinking about my statement that I think religion does little good for people today, and I think the point I was trying to address was that on a world scale, in governments, and "terrorist" organisations, religion is doing little good. at an individual scale I dont think there's anything wrong with people believing they have something watching over them if it keeps the masses happy with a fuzzy feeling inside.
it's not wrong for a person to strongly believe in something. it is wrong for someone to come along and use this belief to manipulate people, this is what I dont like... like my analogy earlier you can understand the conjecture that reducing the amount of tools reduces the amount of abusers of said tools. BUT there is no way to do this when the "tools" are people, without some mass completely voluntary world wide secularisation.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently and it's starting to frustrate me. also noted from that link I provided (no idea how accurate this is) that initially Hinduism and Buddhism were only religious philosophies (perhaps this is why they do less warmongering than certain others):
that's something I could claim to adhere to...I think I may have in invent a nonchurch of rationalism for myself or something.
The ultimate goal of most mass religions are most likely all the same, harmony and peace amongst mankind. that's probably the important bit, but it seems most people are a bit short sighted.
So you would say HAMAS has done nothing good would you?
In the same vein, would you allow me to say all Evangelism is bad? Because it is just the same really - oppressive of women, hateful of homosexuals, backawrd looking, against progress...
I can't say I have ever heard Dawkins speaking about Jews lobbying the government. But if you're saying atheists don't - I think you'll find the likes of NARAL and the ACLU contain a disproportionate number of atheists. And then there is the Democratic Party...
As for Dawkins he's a nasty piece of shit:
To even equate bringing a child up to Catholic to sexual abuse is sick, to say that it is worse insults victims of sexual abuse as well as decent people everywhere. I doubt even Ian Paisley has said anything so hate-filled about Catholics.
And whilst I don't agree with Richard Dawkins on that particular point (though I'm sure there have been people of Catholic upbringing who would equate it to mental abuse, just like there will be people who claim the same about any other form of upbringing), I do think he makes a good point on the labelling of children as being the religion of their parents. He states that the term Catholic child or Muslim child or Jewish child should cause concern, since a child cannot know what their religious beliefs are. I do agree with him that there is a fundamental problem with anyone being given a label which is supposed to be based on their beliefs, for any other reason than them actually adhering to those beliefs. His point is that everyone is born agnostic, and they should never be given a label that they don't give to themselves based on their own informed decision, and I for one agree with him.
Tbh the same thing could be said of the Jewish community in spite of your earlier paraphrasing of Dawkins.
Homosexuals in Jamaica are often murdered due to Christian beliefs.
Indeed. Although, as the BBC point out the Church is not the only factor. Although, I do not think a homophobic murder is the same as a government executing somebody because of their sexuality.
The government can sentence gay men to 10 years hard labour for homosexuality, so its not that different.
:thumb:
And it's not a blanket statement. A blanket statement would be "atheists are all biggoted".
Maybe you should read it. I didn't make a reference to atheists world wide, so why the attitude? Chill...
I was speaking from experience and whilst I know a few far right Christians (I was brought up attending the Protestant church), the most biggotted and closed minded people I have met have mostly been atheists (which is what I said). If I had met a lot of biggotted Muslims then I would change it and generally not care what the PC patrol felt about me.
I could give example upon example of the superiority complexes a lot of atheists I've met have. I don't see why that is offensive, nor closed minded.