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Council to ban cigarette breaks

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God forbid I find any fatty taking time out to inject insulin because they’ve gone and given themselves type 2 diabetes. Disgusting buggers.

    You'll find almost all type 2 diabetes is diet controlled.

    Different levels of fitness around the office is completely different to taking extra breaks over and above those your co workers get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'll find almost all type 2 diabetes is diet controlled.

    Different levels of fitness around the office is completely different to taking extra breaks over and above those your co workers get.

    Poppycock. A smoker is addicted to nicotine and he takes breaks because of it; a fatty take extras time out for all the reasons I cited above. You could argue fatty needs that 4th cream cake break less than a smoker needs his 4th ciggy break.

    All I’m trying to illustrate here is chastising smokers, is for some reason, deemed socially acceptable. People sit up in their ivory towers denouncing smokers with their social and moral blinkers on. Staunch anti-smoking critics enjoy a carte-blanche on attacking smokers, whereas participants of other less desirable past-times enjoy a quasi-immunity from scorn.

    Personally, i couldn't give a fuck whether you're fat or a smoker at work, but for the people whose craw it sticks in, they should open their eyes to the fact their criticism of smokers doesn't stand in isolation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As has been said before where possible the law should require a separate area for non-smokers that should ideally be in a separate room.

    I'd agree with that, as I've said before. Except it shouldn't be where possible- if you can't or won't provide a separate smoking room you should have smoking banned in your premises.
    if your wife is a severe asthmatic

    She isn't.

    CoatHanger, that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen on these boards, and I've seen Lukesh. Unless you're arguing that smokers don't eat, of course, which would be one solution to the smoking problem I guess. And as for fitness, well, are you saying that the respiratory functions of smokers are not damaged by tobacco?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I'd agree with that, as I've said before. Except it shouldn't be where possible- if you can't or won't provide a separate smoking room you should have smoking banned in your premises.

    She isn't.

    CoatHanger, that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen on these boards, and I've seen Lukesh. Unless you're arguing that smokers don't eat, of course, which would be one solution to the smoking problem I guess. And as for fitness, well, are you saying that the respiratory functions of smokers are not damaged by tobacco?

    Way to miss the point. I could compare you to RichKid for his point missing and tirades, but we both know it'd just be trying to rile you.

    I find your overly selective diatribes, ones which have the sole purpose of validating your own opinions to yourself, fairly stupid as well, but i guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on our respective levels of stupidity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Way to miss the point.

    I find your overly selective diatribes, ones which have the sole purpose of validating your own opinions to yourself, fairly stupid as well, but i guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on our respective levels of stupidity.

    Where as yours evidently aren't. I suppose you would go on to propose that those with arthritis, broken bones are all slow and thus waste their employers time in the same way as smokers do then?

    If it is deemed unacceptable to nip out of the office several times a day then fair play it is unacceptable to nip out for a smoke.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I actually wouldn't have a problem with smokers nipping out for a tab if they didn't all seemingly think that it was their right to do so, and that everyone else should go screw themselves. In pretty much the same way they seemingly all think that its their right to smoke in pubs and restaurants, too, preventing anyone who is intolerant to tobacco smoke from going there.

    Seeing as you didn't answer before, I'll ask again. Are you saying that smokers never eat?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I actually wouldn't have a problem with smokers nipping out for a tab if they didn't all seemingly think that it was their right to do so, and that everyone else should go screw themselves. In pretty much the same way they seemingly all think that its their right to smoke in pubs and restaurants, too, preventing anyone who is intolerant to tobacco smoke from going there.

    Have you heard a smoker say it was their right?

    I think it's got more to do with the fact it's an accepted part of life. People smoke in the pub because they do it, their mates do it, their parents probably do it, their parents probably did and you get my drift.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Have you heard a smoker say it was their right?

    The furore over this council's action shows a lot.

    Smokers do seem to think its their right to go outside and have a smoke. Most employers don't care because its worth it for staff harmony, but paid smoking breaks are only there through grace.
    I think it's got more to do with the fact it's an accepted part of life. People smoke in the pub because they do it, their mates do it, their parents probably do it, their parents probably did and you get my drift.

    I do get your drift.

    But now its being banned all the smokers have got their panties in such a wad. I think the ban is OTT too, but you'd think they were being sent to the gulags with the way they're carrying on. Having to stand outside to have a chuff, its up there with losing the vote :rolleyes:
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Kermit wrote:
    Having to stand outside to have a chuff, its up there with losing the vote

    Too right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ALL smoking bans currently being enacted in this country are all based on the premiss that ETS is a cause of Lung cancer.

    This is of course not true at all as ETS has never been shown to cause lung cancer in non smokers despite what all the politicians and doctors say.

    Why should e.g. a council grasscutter be prevented from smoking while cutting grass?

    No logic at all. Just another council jumping on the current antismoker bandwagon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Smokers can't have a cigarette break. Smokers can't have a cigarette in the pub. Now in South Australia some smokers can't even have a cigarette in the car.

    The anti-smoking lobby in California has successfully banned smoking in many parks, beaches and other outdoor public spaces. And in Australia the anti-smokers have won another argument and are forcing their views on smokers by encroaching on private property. (Although, I suppose that is nothing particularly new since bars and cafes are privately owned establishments.)

    What will the anti-smoking lobby here do now its getting its way on pubs, bars and cafes? You can bet they'll push to further ostracise smokers - I expect they'll do the same as their Californian and Australian counterparts; whilst also seeking to exploit people's fears and worries by seeking the effective exclusion of smokers from the NHS.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NB Dis, yuo cannot smoke in your car on NHS premises wef 31st December.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The council should ban fat people from their offices too while they're at it.

    I wonder how much extra time those massive lumbering fatties take to get to the toilet and back; to the water cooler and back; to run (ha) that errand? Double the time I do? Why should they be paid for that extra time? I don’t take it as long as them because I look after myself.

    Stop eating at your desks too, fatties. How can you be possibly working when you’re eating?

    God forbid I find any fatty taking time out to inject insulin because they’ve gone and given themselves type 2 diabetes. Disgusting buggers.
    :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NB Dis, yuo cannot smoke in your car on NHS premises wef 31st December.

    Absurd. Given how much the NHS charges people for the privilege of taking a car on to NHS premises in car park fees it seems a bit of a cheek...What's the reasoning behind it? I seriously wonder how long it is before smoking is banned everywhere except private homes - although, not even that is guaranteed. If someone employs a cleaner or a babysitter it's only a matter of time before their home is declared a 'public' place since its a place of work. (After all, if bar staff get 'protection' from cigarette smoke why shouldn't cleaners get the same protection?)

    The NHS can 'ban' smoking on its premises but who's going to enforce it? Are they going to employ people to police car parks and hunt down smokers? I can't see many people paying too much notice to some busybody in a florescent jacket tbh. And if the NHS were to police this ban it would be proof of mismanagement and misdirection of resources.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what kind of an environment do you all work in where you feel pissed off at your colleagues for daring to leave their desk for 5minutes to have a cig?? if you're that bothered go to the kitchen and hang out there for 5 minutes. i'd hate to work in some sort of boot camp where i have to work solidly for 6 hours until the law states i'm allowed a 15 minute break. we are adults. if we get our work done i don't see what the big deal is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They can't actually enforce the ban in hospital car parks (certainly this is the case in Scotland) as it is not an enclosed public space, though they try to give the impression that they can. It will affect staff as they will probably be able to be sacked under conditions of employment. There is a good commentary on the cruelty of attempting to deny smokers treatment here.
    http://www.pro-choicesmokingdoctor.blogspot.com/

    In Belmont in California there is currently a proposal which would ban smoking in all indoor and outdoor areas of the city with the exception of detached, single-family homes.

    This is utterly outrageous. There is a good commentary on it here
    http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/ By Dr Michael Siegel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Absurd. Given how much the NHS charges people for the privilege of taking a car on to NHS premises in car park fees it seems a bit of a cheek...What's the reasoning behind it?

    I suppose that it could have something to do with the health issue?
    The NHS can 'ban' smoking on its premises but who's going to enforce it?

    Yes, you do not have the "right" to be on NHS property. Unless you are in a life/limb threatening condition.
    Are they going to employ people to police car parks and hunt down smokers? I can't see many people paying too much notice to some busybody in a florescent jacket tbh. And if the NHS were to police this ban it would be proof of mismanagement and misdirection of resources.

    The car park people are already there, remember, as are security because too many members of the public have no respect for their clinicians already. So complain, how much sympathy do you think that you will get?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    highlander wrote:
    They can't actually enforce the ban in hospital car parks (certainly this is the case in Scotland) as it is not an enclosed public space

    Different law and not relevant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suppose that it could have something to do with the health issue?

    :confused: Someone cannot have a cigarette in their car, on NHS premises because they're harming their health. Is eating KFC on NHS premises going to be banned too?
    Yes, you do not have the "right" to be on NHS property. Unless you are in a life/limb threatening condition.

    Lets remember that NHS property is essentially public property. And the entire NHS, the bureaucrats it supports and any busybodies enforcing a smoking ban are paid for by the public - which happens to include smokers. Anyway, few people go on to NHS property for the fun of it - visiting or needing medical treatment...Can't think of any other reason to be there. And making life difficult for smokers by stopping them from lighting up in the car park is just petty and unfair.
    The car park people are already there, remember, as are security because too many members of the public have no respect for their clinicians already. So complain, how much sympathy do you think that you will get?

    It doesn't affect me as I currently and thankfully have no reason to use a hospital car park.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Someone cannot have a cigarette in their car, on NHS premises because they're harming their health. Is eating KFC on NHS premises going to be banned too?

    Nope. But KFC isn't as bad for you. COPD is the world no 4 killer. Don't you think it a little ironic that you can currently smoke on the premises which will treat your smoking related condition - indeed you can be a doctor/nurse/patient on such a ward and still pop outside the front door for a crafty one?

    It's the message it sends as much as the actual damage aspect.
    Lets remember that NHS property is essentially public property.

    Not quite so. It belongs to the crown.
    And the entire NHS, the bureaucrats it supports and any busybodies enforcing a smoking ban are paid for by the public

    Thanks for pointing the finger at those damned buereaucrats.

    Perhaps instead of taking the tabloid line, you might like to redirect your complaint to the correct people. You could start with the Chief Medical Officer.
    Anyway, few people go on to NHS property for the fun of it - visiting or needing medical treatment...Can't think of any other reason to be there. And making life difficult for smokers by stopping them from lighting up in the car park is just petty and unfair.

    ... and if it prevents them "wasting" more NHS resources by quitting, don't you see that as a benefit?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man Of Kent
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by highlander
    They can't actually enforce the ban in hospital car parks (certainly this is the case in Scotland) as it is not an enclosed public space

    Different law and not relevant.

    But you have no legislation in place yet in England or Wales so it cannot be enforced by law. The NHS would like you to think that they can ban it but it will not be illegal for anyone to smoke in their car in a hospital car park.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who said "illegal"?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nope. But KFC isn't as bad for you. COPD is the world no 4 killer.

    Obesity is catching up though isn't it? Do you have proof that KFC isn't as bad? Would the non-smoker eating McDonalds for breakfast, KFC for lunch and a Pizza Hut for dinner not be damaging their health more so than a smoker who has a couple of cigarettes to get through the day?
    Don't you think it a little ironic that you can currently smoke on the premises which will treat your smoking related condition - indeed you can be a doctor/nurse/patient on such a ward and still pop outside the front door for a crafty one?

    So what if it's ironic? If people choose to smoke it's their choice; even if they're a doctor or a nurse.
    It's the message it sends as much as the actual damage aspect.

    And how far do you what this 'message' to go?
    Not quite so. It belongs to the crown.

    Well, indirectly you know.
    Thanks for pointing the finger at those damned buereaucrats.

    Well who else normally comes up with these ideas?
    Perhaps instead of taking the tabloid line, you might like to redirect your complaint to the correct people. You could start with the Chief Medical Officer.

    Guess this is an exception.
    ... and if it prevents them "wasting" more NHS resources by quitting, don't you see that as a benefit?

    But where do you stop? We'd save NHS resources if people didn't drink alcohol, eat unhealthy food, not exercise, etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Obesity is catching up though isn't it?

    nah, long way off yet.
    So what if it's ironic? If people choose to smoke it's their choice; even if they're a doctor or a nurse.

    Don't you think that it detracts from the point of a health building? if not why does it matter about MRSA?
    And how far do you what this 'message' to go?

    As far as stopping the sale of unhealthy foods in the staff/visitor restaurant.
    Well, indirectly you know.

    But you have right "right" to be there and can be removed for any reason...
    Well who else normally comes up with these ideas?

    You'd be surprised, believe me there are many things cmoing out of the NHS which are pushed upon us, rather than chosen by us...
    But where do you stop? We'd save NHS resources if people didn't drink alcohol, eat unhealthy food, not exercise, etc.

    NB Drinking on NHS property is a no-no and has been for some time.

    We are talking about NHS property (oh, and it includes company vans etc), and those should be healthy places, non?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I said Illegal as either you can smoke in your car by law or you cannot. If it is not illegal to smoke in your car in a hospital car park then it is not illegal and therefore cannot be enforced by law.

    Here is a link that admits this point

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2006/03/23/newsstory8152483t0.asp
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    nah, long way off yet.

    Interesting though that as smoking rates in Britain and the US in particular have declined obesity has rapidly increased. I've no idea if there is any link, even if there is though I'd suspect eating habits and laziness are more significant.
    Don't you think that it detracts from the point of a health building? if not why does it matter about MRSA?

    Doctors and nurses smoking goes back to before MRSA. It does detract from it being a 'health' building but since smoking is a legal and legitimate choice...
    You'd be surprised, believe me there are many things cmoing out of the NHS which are pushed upon us, rather than chosen by us...

    Fair enough and totally true I can imagine.
    NB Drinking on NHS property is a no-no and has been for some time.

    Which seems fair enough. Being under the influence of alcohol for a doctor or nurse stops them from doing their job properly. And the NHS has enough problems with violent patients and visitors without tolerating drinking on the site. Alcohol is a different issue to smoking.
    We are talking about NHS property (oh, and it includes company vans etc), and those should be healthy places, non?

    If there's only one person in the van at the time and they happen to be a smoker I can't see any problem with them lighting up. A bit of consideration for other people who might use the van in future, window down, maybe an air freshener - no problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting though that as smoking rates in Britain and the US in particular have declined obesity has rapidly increased. I've no idea if there is any link, even if there is though I'd suspect eating habits and laziness are more significant.

    Exercise is the key to obesity, not what you eat.
    Doctors and nurses smoking goes back to before MRSA. It does detract from it being a 'health' building but since smoking is a legal and legitimate choice...

    So what if it's legal? That's not relevant.
    Which seems fair enough. Being under the influence of alcohol for a doctor or nurse stops them from doing their job properly. And the NHS has enough problems with violent patients and visitors without tolerating drinking on the site. Alcohol is a different issue to smoking.

    It's the nuisance value too, of course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    highlander wrote:
    But you have no legislation in place yet in England or Wales so it cannot be enforced by law. The NHS would like you to think that they can ban it but it will not be illegal for anyone to smoke in their car in a hospital car park.

    By-laws?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    highlander wrote:
    I said Illegal as either you can smoke in your car by law or you cannot. If it is not illegal to smoke in your car in a hospital car park then it is not illegal and therefore cannot be enforced by law.

    Who said anything about smoking law, again you are linking this to the smoking bans in public places and that isn't relevant at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    highlander wrote:
    This is of course not true at all as ETS has never been shown to cause lung cancer in non smokers despite what all the politicians and doctors say

    :lol:

    Who to trust more...the pro-smoking lobby or medical experts.

    You've really cheered me up with that.

    KFC isn't as bad because it doesn't create a serious and real cancer risk in everyone stood in a 20m radius of the person eating it.

    Of course, if you wish to show that people get passive obesity from standing too close to a Big Mac or a box of chicken dippers, then I'll happily see eating fatty food in public banned too.
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