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Red ken wants to make band G cars pay £25 congestion charge

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    'twas another woman. I don't know why, but IME it's usually women driving 4x4s :confused: I don't know why.
    It's a safety/confidence thing. Many users say they "feel safer" in a 4x4. Which is really stupid because they're actually twice as likely to die from a rollover crash. Not to mention that they precious children are far more likely to die if they're run over by another yummy mummy's 4x4 than if they were hit by an ordinary car.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It's a safety/confidence thing. Many users say they "feel safer" in a 4x4. Which is really stupid because they're actually twice as likely to die from a rollover crash. Not to mention that they precious children are far more likely to die if they're run over by another yummy mummy's 4x4 than if they were hit by an ordinary car.
    Yeah but that's why they drive their kids round the corner, rather than letting them walk. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You obviously don't have a clue about these types of professions then. This is the type of car my step dad has.
    hard-top-mitsubishi-L200.jpg
    Look familiar? It should do, because practically every builder, plumber and electrician with a family drives one of these. It cost £9000, not the £35,000 you assume everyone spends on a 4x4. Have you ever heard of a little thing called second hand? It's what people resort to when they need a car that's out of their price range when new. And it's these people that you always end up hurting when you charge people flat rate taxes, not the people who don't need a large vehicle.
    I have seen very few of those cars in Britain, and I can honestly say I have never seen anyhone being driven by anyone who even looks as if they might be a self employed person such as an electrician/plumber/builder.

    Can you fit a ladder in there? Can you fit long items such as plastic pipes? I still see that a very impractical vehicle to ply one's trade. Far better ( maybe even and cheaper) to get a second hand van and a second hand car for private use. Which I reckon it must be what the immense majority of people does, because as I said I have never ever seen a member of the building industry going around in anything other than a van.

    I'm sure a very few people might the exception, like your step father, but the problem of high pollution and congestion still remains. You cannot please 100% of all people all the time. Some times some measures have to be taken that will go against a few people. That is the way it has always been and there is little that can be done about it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but that's why they drive their kids round the corner, rather than letting them walk. :p
    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    but the problem of high pollution and congestion still remains. You cannot please 100% of all people all the time. Some times some measures have to be taken that will go against a few people. That is the way it has always been and there is little that can be done about it.

    Are you joking? Swapping 4x4s for vans is not going to reduce 'high pollution' – there isn't much difference in fuel consumption anyway between the two. And getting on to global warming let it be pointed out that there is absolutely no scientific basis for suggesting that the removal of every single vehicle in Britain would have any effect whatsoever on climate change. (So to suddenly launch a witch hunt against 4x4s on the pretence of saving the planet is just absurd). The crusade against flying too makes all sorts of unproven assumptions.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    To be honest I can't believe you'd really want to drive through the congestion zone. Most people would just park outside it (and you can get damn close without going in) and then use the underground - it's quicker, easier, cheaper and you'll never be able to park anywhere near anything you'd want to visit anyway.

    Remember the congestion charging area isn't London - it's the center of London.

    Aint it expanding from next year?

    Where can you look up the bandings of various cars, like if you're thinking of buying a new one for instance?

    My friend's car is like 600cc tiny little thing from Japan - he's wondering if his is in bands A or B.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The immense majority of 4x4 owners in London would not replace it with a van, so the benefits are obvious.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    He has also insulted him, challenged New Labour many times, got expulsed by them and then beat them at the election

    I was talking about the other Blair :p
    Aladdin wrote:
    He invited one such extremist to talk about something else. Still a very stupid move indeed, but why don't you look at all the good things Ken has done for the gay and lesbian communities, and why don't you ask what their opinion of Ken is? Their general opinion of Ken appears to be excellent across the board.

    Excellent across the board? Peter Tatchell ring a bell? And he was one of Ken's oldest supporters.
    Aladdin wrote:
    So? Why should that bother Londoners?

    It should bother any decent person with a shred of humanity.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Most Londoners care most about transport. Ken pisses on anything any other candidate from any other party could possibly offer.

    The only person who has benefited from Ken's spending on the tube is Bob Kiley. Almost every Londoner cares about transport but the amount of extra money that the tube needs puts it beyond the Mayor imo; projects like Crossrail and the massive investment the tube needs will come from the government - not the Mayor.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Start a new thread about Ken if you want to discuss him, otherwise stay on the c-charge topic.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Where can you look up the bandings of various cars, like if you're thinking of buying a new one for instance?

    Here is a website where you can look up the co2 emission for a particular make of car.

    The you need to look here to see what band that makes you.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    RubberSkin wrote:
    Well apparently you've rigged the Euromillions draw, so that should be possible :D
    :thumb: Word.

    Haha, Trans Am here I come. God, it will probably take all of my "winnings" to insure and fill that fucker with Petrol!

    Meh. 12 litre Buick Riviera? I think so.

    The thing is, could these people drive a van instead of a 4x4? Most of them, the answer is YES. As such, they should go buy Transits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The bands btw are based on the Vehicle Excise Duty bands - essentially the bands for car tax and since March 2001 this has been based on caarbon dioxide emission levels.

    The following shows the bands (a bit down the page) - but your friend should check back to their car tax and see what band they paid then

    http://www.ibsleasing.co.uk/page.asp?Page=42
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Audi Saloons, VW Transporters, Citroen C6, Kia Sedona, Renault Espace, Merc M class Estate.

    Some of the more 'normal' cars that hit band G.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Which band are Peugeot 806s in? Just curious about whether it would affect my parent's car, although it's a bit of a null point as she avoids London like the plague and would never drive in it if she did have to go there.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I have seen very few of those cars in Britain, and I can honestly say I have never seen anyhone being driven by anyone who even looks as if they might be a self employed person such as an electrician/plumber/builder.

    Can you fit a ladder in there? Can you fit long items such as plastic pipes? I still see that a very impractical vehicle to ply one's trade. Far better ( maybe even and cheaper) to get a second hand van and a second hand car for private use. Which I reckon it must be what the immense majority of people does, because as I said I have never ever seen a member of the building industry going around in anything other than a van.

    I'm sure a very few people might the exception, like your step father, but the problem of high pollution and congestion still remains. You cannot please 100% of all people all the time. Some times some measures have to be taken that will go against a few people. That is the way it has always been and there is little that can be done about it.
    Well you're obviously not looking hard enough. There's tonnes of the things around. And no you can't fit ladders in it, but that's no different to a small van, you use a roof rack. My step dad has a cylindrical container on the top to carry his electrical tubing. And in no way is it cheaper to get a van and a car. Ignoring all of the extra costs that go along with owning two cars (insurance etc), a transit van is a similar price to a large pickup truck, so if you've only got half the amount of money to buy a van (since you need a car too), it's not going to be as good/reliable is it? Like I said, he'd be happy to use an estate car, but the government has decided that you can't claim that as a business expense.

    I agree you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but your solution is to punish the people who can't afford it, meanwhile those who have a 4x4 as a luxury rather than a necessity will go on using them. Just because you don't see a need for someone to own a 4x4 doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people who do need to use a 4x4 in the city.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My solution is to stop tens of thousands of ultra polluting vehicles making journies in Central London every day. Together with an overal reduction in traffic it will improve the lives of 7 million people.

    If you ask me to choose between that and leaving things as they are just because a very few people might be left worse off, don't blame me for choosing the former.

    Incidentally not all 4x4s are in Band G so not all is necessarily lost for your stepfather. At worst he'll have to change vehicles.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Audi Saloons, VW Transporters, Citroen C6, Kia Sedona, Renault Espace, Merc M class Estate.

    Some of the more 'normal' cars that hit band G.
    With which engine though? Because from the very first car brand I have checked from your list I see that they have dozens upon dozens of models and configurations that do not fall anywhere near G Band.

    Those who opt for a 3.5l V8 high performance engine shouldn't perhaps be too surprised if their car falls into the most polluting category available.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Which band are Peugeot 806s in? Just curious about whether it would affect my parent's car, although it's a bit of a null point as she avoids London like the plague and would never drive in it if she did have to go there.
    I've just checked the Peugeot website and 3 out of the 4 configurations available are exempt from this charge.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    My solution is to stop tens of thousands of ultra polluting vehicles making journies in Central London every day. Together with an overal reduction in traffic it will improve the lives of 7 million people.

    If you ask me to choose between that and leaving things as they are just because a very few people might be left worse off, don't blame me for choosing the former.

    Incidentally not all 4x4s are in Band G so not all is necessarily lost for your stepfather. At worst he'll have to change vehicles.

    Your solution won't achieve that, as has been said the majority which is who this will need to hit, will just keep paying and driving, the minority who have the thing for work/lifestyle that they have bought second hand and had limited choice will be hard hit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just out of curiosity Aladdin, are you South London that will be affected by congestion charging or are you far enough out so you can have any opinion and it doesn't matter.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree. My solution, or rather Ken Livingstone's because I did not come up with it, will have a big impact. Not everyone who owns a Chelsea tractor is a millionaire. £125 a week will piss a lot of people off regardless of their bank balance and will persuade them to switch to a more conventional and appropriate vehicle.

    And as for where I live, no it is not within the Congestion Charge zone. Which many would say is a shame, because if it did that would mean I could drive all over London and get 90% residents' discount if I wanted to do so.

    But CC affects me anyway. At the end of the day I work in Chelsea, which will be part of the CC area in less than 3 months.

    It is irrelevant in any case, because I would not want to drive to Central London during peak hours if you paid me, and more to the point I would never in a trillion years want to own a 4x4 monster truck. Not unless I moved to a farm in the Highlands that is. So the £25 charge would never affect me.

    The pollution, the congestion and the near misses while I'm on my bike by innapropriately large cars that restrict visibility all around affect me deeply. That is why I (and most of the Londoners I know) applaud the congestion charge and welcome this new charge on gas-guzzlers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    anyone stuck up themselves enough to not use the tube in central london from 9am-6pm is an obvious lunatic cause of the traffic there, and the fact the tube is faster
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    My solution, or rather Ken Livingstone's because I did not come up with it

    Livingstone maintains he "nicked the idea" off Milton Friedman, who coincidently died yesterday.
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