Is prison cold turkey a human right abuse?

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

did i say that?

where?

Well you started banging on about victim's rights in a completely irrelevant manner. You certainly seemed to be implying that caring about prisoners precludes caring about victims. Otherwise why mention it?

Littleali wrote:

i was implying that these sods, who commit crimes, dont care about the people they are hurting, lives they are destroying, the human rights they are taking away from someone, but they DEMAND theirs

I think you're making a few assumptions here. Do you know what these people were inside for?

Littleali wrote:

like i have already said, i dont agree or disagree with making them go cold turkey, i dont have a massive opinion on it either way...

So why post on the thread then if you have no opinion?

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

i was watching a program on bbc2 about offenders wanting parole

one had a cd player and games console

So what?

Littleali wrote:

i`m not saying ALL prisons are like that....i just dont think ANY should be like that

How many prisons have you visited?

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

I think you're making a few assumptions here. Do you know what these people were inside for?

no, but whatever it was, it wasnt legal and most illegal things affect someone innocent in one way or another

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

So what?

How many prisons have you visited?

so what?

so they shouldnt have things like that!

and none...luckily for me, i dont circulate with criminals

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

no, but whatever it was, it wasnt legal and most illegal things affect someone innocent in one way or another

Begging? Possession of drugs?

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

so what?

so they shouldnt have things like that!

Why?

Littleali wrote:

and none...luckily for me, i dont circulate with criminals

So you don't know what its like in prison, yet you feel you know enough to have an opinion on what its like?

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

i was implying that these sods, who commit crimes, dont care about the people they are hurting, lives they are destroying, the human rights they are taking away from someone, but they DEMAND theirs

As they should.

The point is, and the principle is, that all humans have the same rights. It's not an opt in issue, it's a right. Rights cannot be removed and they apply to all. It's an very important principle.

The minute you start to distinguish then you open the floodgates for other people to have rights removed and we get to a stage where we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

Begging? Possession of drugs?

drugs..somewhere along the line, someone is paying for someone`s drug use

be it the 13 year old they use as a runner who gets deeper into a life of crime the older he gets

or a 32 year old who got into debt with a dealer and got murdered for it

to be in possession of drugs, you must have visited a dealer, who i presume also has a dealer, and somewhere in the chain, someone innocent will get hurt

they may not affect some1 directly, but someone in the chain will suffer

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

So you don't know what its like in prison, yet you feel you know enough to have an opinion on what its like?

i didnt say that did i?

i said i SEEN a program and i`m NOT sayin ALL prisons are like that, but my point is NONE of them should be like that

you`re putting words into my mouth

anyway, i`m going slightly off topic now, so i`ll step down lol

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

i didnt say that did i?

You're posting about prison from a position of complete ignorance.

Littleali wrote:

i said i SEEN a program and i`m NOT sayin ALL prisons are like that, but my point is NONE of them should be like that

You saw a TV programme once and now you know what prisons should be like?

Littleali wrote:

you`re putting words into my mouth

No, I'm not. I'm responding to what you write.

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

You saw a TV programme once and now you know what prisons should be like?

so because i`ve never been to a prison i cant have an opinion on one?

i`ve never been to mars, i still have thoughts on it though!

i can have an opinion on what a prison SHOULD be like without visiting one.....

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

drugs..somewhere along the line, someone is paying for someone`s drug use

be it the 13 year old they use as a runner who gets deeper into a life of crime the older he gets

or a 32 year old who got into debt with a dealer and got murdered for it

to be in possession of drugs, you must have visited a dealer, who i presume also has a dealer, and somewhere in the chain, someone innocent will get hurt

they may not affect some1 directly, but someone in the chain will suffer

Someone with a heroin habit and a legally prescribed methadone script gets arrested for possesion of crack cocaine. Why does he deserve to be punished for the possible actions of other people?

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

so because i`ve never been to a prison i cant have an opinion on one?
i`ve never been to mars, i still have thoughts on it though!

i can have an opinion on what a prison SHOULD be like without visiting one.....

But you don't know what prison is actually like, so how can you compare your vision of what it should be like?

Hint: It's not like Porridge on the telly.

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

I don't get what you're saying. You appear to be being contradictory. Yes, we all know that prison is supposed to be a punishment and that part of that punishment is the taking away of social luxuries, like recreational drugs (ignoring the fact that actually drugs are very easy to come by in prison). So far, agreed. You then say that you think prisoners should be treated with methadone for opiod dependency. What is your actual point? You think that withholding methadone is out of order? Or you think methadone is a luxury?

I am saying drug addicts shoul dbe given treatment rather then going cold turkey to try to kick the habit they have... how much more fucking simple does it have to be said before your thick skull takes in a simple point that has been said so many times!

Former Member · November 2006

Bullseye wrote:

I am saying drug addicts shoul dbe given treatment rather then going cold turkey to try to kick the habit they have... how much more fucking simple does it have to be said before your thick skull takes in a simple point that has been said so many times!

If you actually worded your original post clearer, we wouldn't be having this silly row. Why did you post all that stuff then about drugs being a luxury then?

Are you against methadone as a maintenance treatment btw?

Former Member · November 2006

Blagsta wrote:

But you don't know what prison is actually like, so how can you compare your vision of what it should be like?

Hint: It's not like Porridge on the telly.

No. She's got a point. She doesn't have to have any concept of the reality to have her own ideal. She thinks that prisoners shouldn't have creature comforts like TVs or games consoles or stereos etc. What does it matter what the reality is like?

Former Member · November 2006

Because she is basing her opinion on what she thinks prison is like. She has seen a telly programme that featured a prisoner with a Play Station and has formed an opinion on what prison is like from that. In reality, she hasn't a clue.

Former Member · November 2006

Littleali wrote:

i was watching a program on bbc2 about offenders wanting parole

one had a cd player and games console

i`m not saying ALL prisons are like that....i just dont think ANY should be like that

Here she is saying what prisons are "like" - based on one TV programme. That's a bit silly donchathink?

Former Member · November 2006

Well, she saw a program on the bbc and justified it by saying she doesn't think ALL prisons are like that, just that none should be like that. ie that even one being like that isn't ok in her opinion. What's the problem here? You can disagree and say that prisoners should get shiney electronic toys, but she has a totally valid opinion.

Former Member · November 2006

Some facts

* 52% of male prisoners and 71% of female prisoners have no qualifications at all
* 67% of all prisoners were unemployed at the time of imprisonment
* The number of nationally-recognised qualifications in literacy, language and numeracy achieved by prisoners has risen from 25,300 in 2001-02 to 63,500 in 2004-05.
(Source: Department for Education and Skills, December 2005)

* Half of the 75,000 people in prison gained no qualifications at school and suffer from poor literacy and numeracy skills, according to a survey by the British Dyslexia Association. Around one fifth have hidden disabilities such as dyslexia and other learning difficulties.
(Guardian, 20 April 2005)

* The prison service invites convicted prisoners on reception to volunteer to take a literacy test devised by the Basic Skills Agency which is approximately equivalent to the reading skills expected of 9 to 10-year-olds. The 1998 results showed that 60% had problems with literacy, and 40% had a severe literacy problem.
* In the three years preceding 1998, the prison population grew by nearly 14,000 to 65,600, while spending on inmates' education was cut by nearly £1 million.
* The Social Exclusion Unit in its first report on truancy and exclusion (July 1998) showed the tangled web of problems that lie in the background when young people are excluded from school, or exclude themselves through truancy. Low aspirations, poor literacy and a peer culture that doesn't value education are common culprits.
* In 2002, a Social Exclusion Unit report showed that most prisoners come from socially excluded backgrounds: they are 13 times more likely to have been in care and 14 times more likely to have been unemployed than non-offenders. More than half of all male prisoners and over two thirds of female prisoners have no qualifications.
(Source: Reducing Re-offending by ex-prisoners, Social Exclusion Unit, 2002)

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/Database/stats/keystats3.html

* Two thirds of men in prison are diagnosed with a personality disorder and two fifths show symptoms of at least one neurotic disorder such as depression, anxiety and phobias. Among the general population less than a fifth of men are affected by these disorders.
* Men in prison have a high rate of severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia or delusional disorders – nearly ten per cent compared to less than one per cent of the general population.
* One in five men in prison are on prescribed medication such as anti-depressants or anti-psychotic medicine and there is evidence that the use of medication increases whilst in custody.
* One in five male prisoners have attempted suicide at some stage in their life and the same number have previously been admitted for in-patient psychiatric care.

Prison regimes do little to address the mental health needs of prisoners who can be locked in their cells for up to 23 hours a day.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=317

Former Member · November 2006

Fiend_85 wrote:

Well, she saw a program on the bbc and justified it by saying she doesn't think ALL prisons are like that, just that none should be like that. ie that even one being like that isn't ok in her opinion. What's the problem here? You can disagree and say that prisoners should get shiney electronic toys, but she has a totally valid opinion.

I've already stated what I mean. Either read it or don't. Meh.

*shrugs*

Former Member · November 2006

So? Like I said, disagree with her all you want. But she has qualified her experience and formed a valid opinion.

You've got to stop being such an arsehole about people holding a contrary opinion to you. If you weren't maybe you'd find it a little easier to change their mind. If you'd just said, "Ok, I understand that, but did you know (insert all that shit here)" then maybe she would have said, ok, well maybe they should get something, or she may continue to hold her opinion. Either way, she's got the right to it. Even if you think she's wrong.

Former Member · November 2006

So you don't want to actually read and think about what I wrote. Quelle surprise eh.

Oh well.

Former Member · November 2006

What the fuck are you talking about now?

Former Member · November 2006

We should make our prisons like those in the Southern States of America.

Former Member · November 2006

Such language from a young girl! Shocking!

Former Member · November 2006

Fiend85 - all joking aside, maybe you have a point. I am a bit combative. However, when I see someone spouting ignorant opinions without bothering to base them in facts, it gets my back up.

Former Member · November 2006

Disillusioned wrote:

We should make our prisons like those in the Southern States of America.

Former Member · November 2006

Well grow up a bit then. Educate her, don't dismiss her it gets you nowhere and makes you look like a cock.

Former Member · November 2006

Fiend_85 wrote:

Well grow up a bit then.

You have a very funny view of what it means to be grown up!

Fiend_85 wrote:

Educate her, don't dismiss her it gets you nowhere and makes you look like a cock.

Personally, I think its her that looks like a cock (can a female be a cock? Anyway). Anyone who irrelevantly starts ranting about victims rights and playstations is a cock in my book.

Actually if you read my initial engagement with her, I started off in a nice civil and questioning way. She then claims that watching a TV programme means she knows what prisons are "like". That's rather silly IMO. I then get a load of abuse from you. Nice.

Is prison cold turkey a human right abuse?

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