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Is prison cold turkey a human right abuse?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
story

So, what do you think? Do you think that people who've broken the law (and for the sake of arguement, can we keep drug laws and whether or not they're reasonable and fair separate?) should be weaned off or just cut off?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As I understand it, they didnt offer help, which they could easily have done to make the withdrawl marginally better. They did this for reasons which arent all that clear. So, what it boils down to is why wouldnt they offer medical treatment which they knew full well would have eased the suffering of a prisoner.

    I'm not suggesting that they should be given junk all the time during prison, but there are things they could have given during the initial 72 hours or so.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Whislt they should/could have given something to ease the suffering and the withdrawl symptoms, I don't think they have a valid case to be fair.

    They probably should have offered something, at least a substitute drug, I don't know why they didn't, but oh well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Whislt they should/could have given something to ease the suffering and the withdrawl symptoms, I don't think they have a valid case to be fair.

    Do you have less sympathy for them because its heroin or because they are prisoners?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's a really important question. I had to think about it. I think it's probably because they're prisoners. Now, that's not to say that I think that they shouldn't be treated at all, but I also think that there's no way a prisoner should be able to get a cash handout from the government because they were made to give something up that was illegal anyway
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    That's a really important question. I had to think about it. I think it's probably because they're prisoners. Now, that's not to say that I think that they shouldn't be treated at all, but I also think that there's no way a prisoner should be able to get a cash handout from the government because they were made to give something up that was illegal anyway

    But its not an issue of whether they give up or not, its an issue of whether they get temporary help with a self inflicted medical condition (same as say alcoholism). All I suspect they wanted was help for the first few days, this is easy enough for the prison to provide and although wont exactly make it easy for the person coming off the heroin will make it easier.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes.

    I guess the upshot of this is that if we with-hold something that makes something easier, is it a human rights abuse? Is it their human right to receive help to make a cure more comfortable?

    I'm not really sure. The idea that they get money for breaking the law bothers me though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's disgusting and I salute any taxpayer disgusted at funding this kind of compensation who commits tax evasion.

    If drug addicts in prison are forced to go cold turkey that's not a human rights abuse. To acknowledge that it is insults actual victims of real human rights abuses - such as those tormented in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

    Has anybody ever died of heroin withdrawal?

    This kind of absurdity wouldn't happen anywhere else, Britain really is screwed up at times.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think they should be given treatment for their addiction in the early stages of been locked away, until they are capable of handling things better. Whether the crime they were arrested for was drug related or not, which i think should be said too.

    However, they are under arrest and locked in a prison, the point of which is to both rehabilitate (supposedly) and to punish. Having drugs witheld is clearly part of the punishment, like having sex witheld by been locked in prison (sex with women i mean of course) and 24 hour tv, internet, alcohol access like they would have out of prison. Drugs are just another comfort of the outside world they would have cut off, but as i say, the addicts should be treated in the early stages.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's disgusting and I salute any taxpayer disgusted at funding this kind of compensation who commits tax evasion.

    If drug addicts in prison are forced to go cold turkey that's not a human rights abuse. To acknowledge that it is insults actual victims of real human rights abuses - such as those tormented in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

    Has anybody ever died of heroin withdrawal?

    This kind of absurdity wouldn't happen anywhere else, Britain really is screwed up at times.

    Wow, you really are a humane little puppy aren't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's disgusting and I salute any taxpayer disgusted at funding this kind of compensation who commits tax evasion.

    If drug addicts in prison are forced to go cold turkey that's not a human rights abuse. To acknowledge that it is insults actual victims of real human rights abuses - such as those tormented in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

    Has anybody ever died of heroin withdrawal?

    This kind of absurdity wouldn't happen anywhere else, Britain really is screwed up at times.


    you know they can buy smack in prisons more easily and cheaply than on streets
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    budda wrote:
    Do you have less sympathy for them because its heroin or because they are prisoners?

    I just don't think it is worthy of this amount of attention. Admitadley, it isn't nice, and it might force them to source it illegaly in the prison, but I don't think it is worth the courts time.

    Dis, people have died from withdrawl. They sometimes kill themselves. Although, I doubt that would bother you at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's disgusting and I salute any taxpayer disgusted at funding this kind of compensation who commits tax evasion.

    If drug addicts in prison are forced to go cold turkey that's not a human rights abuse. To acknowledge that it is insults actual victims of real human rights abuses - such as those tormented in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

    Has anybody ever died of heroin withdrawal?

    This kind of absurdity wouldn't happen anywhere else, Britain really is screwed up at times.

    Ha typical, totally misses the point and still somehow to bring Sadam into it which has no relevance at all. Kudos to you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Presumably we should not help those inmates who are attacked by others in prison either. Let them bleed and suffer a bit. They only brought it upon themselves for committing a crime in the first place.


    And people wonder why so many ex-inmates re-offend... :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    An interesting first hand account of the experience of going cold turkey:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6143810.stm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Presumably we should not help those inmates who are attacked by others in prison either. Let them bleed and suffer a bit. They only brought it upon themselves for committing a crime in the first place.


    And people wonder why so many ex-inmates re-offend... :rolleyes:


    I am confused by this post...have i missed a post it was replying to that would put it into context please?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's disgusting and I salute any taxpayer disgusted at funding this kind of compensation who commits tax evasion.

    If drug addicts in prison are forced to go cold turkey that's not a human rights abuse. To acknowledge that it is insults actual victims of real human rights abuses - such as those tormented in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

    Has anybody ever died of heroin withdrawal?

    This kind of absurdity wouldn't happen anywhere else, Britain really is screwed up at times.

    You disgust me. To approve of people not being given legally prescribed medication and forcing them to endure unnecessary suffering is just petty callousness. To then bring in Iraq is beneath contempt. What makes you think that human rights only refers to torture in a foreign country? There is a good case to argue that forced withdrawal from an opiod dependency is cruel and unusual punishment to say the least.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was partly aimed at Dis' outrage that compensation is being paid, and partly and suggestions elsewhere that it is not a bid deal or something that should merit compensation.

    Whereas I can perhaps understand someone who says compensation is not the best response (IMO disciplinary action against those responsible would certainly be appropriate), forcing somebody into cold turkey is nothing short of despicable. You might as well endorse punishment beatings and mistreatment by prison officers.

    Prisoners are human beings. And they have some rights. Perhaps if we focused more on the underlining reasons for drug abuse and crime, offer more help and less jail to drug addicts, and treat those who do get jailed humanely and in a dignified manner perhaps there would be a lot less crime and misery all around.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bullseye wrote:
    I think they should be given treatment for their addiction in the early stages of been locked away, until they are capable of handling things better. Whether the crime they were arrested for was drug related or not, which i think should be said too.

    However, they are under arrest and locked in a prison, the point of which is to both rehabilitate (supposedly) and to punish. Having drugs witheld is clearly part of the punishment, like having sex witheld by been locked in prison (sex with women i mean of course) and 24 hour tv, internet, alcohol access like they would have out of prison. Drugs are just another comfort of the outside world they would have cut off, but as i say, the addicts should be treated in the early stages.

    Nonsense. Methadone is a legally prescribed and recognised treatment for opiod dependency. It is not a "comfort". It is a medication used to treat addiction - a recognised medical and emotional syndrome. And I'm not even going into the use of opioids as (self) medication for certain mental health problems.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Errrrr....Did i say something about Methadone? I do not understand why you are quoting me Blagsta?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No-one should ever be refuse the correct medical intervention. Simple as.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, but as in the story aladdin(?) linked to, it was a case of the drug team being over-stretched, is it still a human rights abuse?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Nonsense. Methadone is a legally prescribed and recognised treatment for opiod dependency. It is not a "comfort". It is a medication used to treat addiction - a recognised medical and emotional syndrome. And I'm not even going into the use of opioids as (self) medication for certain mental health problems.

    Because you're on about having drugs withheld? You do know that methadone is a drug don't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Ok, but as in the story aladdin(?) linked to, it was a case of the drug team being over-stretched, is it still a human rights abuse?

    Well, I don't know the legal definition under the Human Rights Act. However withholding medication seems fairly abusive to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's an outrage. They broke the law first off by buying herion. They then break the law again (not sure what they did to be fair) to get into prison. They then ask the prison for herion (or a substitute) which is refused so they sue the prison? How fucking daft is the system?

    Lets remove the prison aspect of the argument for a second. What if this was outside? They have no money thus no herion. Do they go to a doctor and ask for help with methadone prescriptions,etc..? Nah. They go out on the rob. Or sell something.

    This has just opened a massive hole for abuse as people will now start sueing left right and centre for other addictions. Nicotine & alchohol being the two obvious ones that spring to mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, if you read the story, many of them were already on a methadone script. Refusing medication is wrong. Not to mention the fact that refusing it then encourages the heroin trade in the nick.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This has just opened a massive hole for abuse as people will now start sueing left right and centre for other addictions. Nicotine & alchohol being the two obvious ones that spring to mind.

    Given that you can smoke in prison I doubt there is going to be an issue with nicotine. However, I assume they provide treatment for hardcore alcoholics when they get to prison, given they could die during the withdrawl of that.

    By the same token, if a prisoner tries to kill or harm themselves, should they get treatment? That's self inflicted harm same as the addiction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lets remove the prison aspect of the argument for a second. What if this was outside? They have no money thus no herion. Do they go to a doctor and ask for help with methadone prescriptions,etc..? Nah. They go out on the rob. Or sell something.

    This is largely to do with the prescribing of methadone, in that addicts dont want it. If you prescribed heroin then they wouldnt be out stealing and you wouldnt need to send them to jail, a money saver all round really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some places also have 6 month waiting lists for prescribing. Which is a scandal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Some places also have 6 month waiting lists for prescribing. Which is a scandal.

    And the addicts are supposed to do what exactly while waiting?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They said on the news they got about £3,000 each
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