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Kelly and Blair delay equality in goods and services
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Cabinet split over new rights for gays
The story's a bit old now, sorry, didn't get round to posting it. My main concern is that this legislation will vanish. Consider the likelihood that we will have a new parliament by this time in 2007 - at least, a new figurehead - who will probably move away from a lot of the stuff that's been started.
What do people think? Is it reasonable to allow what is tantamount to a loophole for homophobes, providing they're religious? The current government has done this time and time again (check out the Civil Partnerships Act, or the new employment legislation). Sickening.
The story's a bit old now, sorry, didn't get round to posting it. My main concern is that this legislation will vanish. Consider the likelihood that we will have a new parliament by this time in 2007 - at least, a new figurehead - who will probably move away from a lot of the stuff that's been started.
What do people think? Is it reasonable to allow what is tantamount to a loophole for homophobes, providing they're religious? The current government has done this time and time again (check out the Civil Partnerships Act, or the new employment legislation). Sickening.
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I've always thought Prime Ministers and members of governments should be at leat agnostic. There is clearly a conflict of interests when that's not the case.
Erm they're not fundamentalists.
I think it's wrong but surely they have a right to vest their own beliefs.
As a Spaniard, take my word for it. They're dodgy as fuck.
I know all too well about them, still not fundamentalists. Fundamentalists believe that the literal translation of the Bible should be implemented into everyday life. Catholics don't believe that, they use the Bible and their own philosophy which has been formed from the beginning to the current day.
Still, Opus Dei have nothing to do with this, it's just politicians who don't agree with the legislation. Their beliefs and they have a right to hold them.
Perhaps Catholics elsewhere are different from Catholics in Spain. But I can assure you there is a world of difference between mainstream Catholics and members of the Opus Dei. Most Catholics in Spain use artificial contraception. And they certainly don't believe in lashing, mortification or using young women as a free source of domestic labour.
If you do not want to call them fundamentalists, fine. They are still extremist fruitcakes, and nasty ones at that.
They also have a duty to serve the public that elected them to power. Their beliefs are personal and while they're perfectly welcome to voice their opinion and to vote against what they don't like, they don't have the right to use their power to block legislation they don't like from a personal point of view.
Erm it's a Catholic organisation, and it's no worse than your average Evangelical Church or many Islamic orgs.
They don't have a right to block it but it's hardly a surprise, politicians always use their personal beliefs to influence politics on a bigger scale, the fact that it's a religious thing shouldn't really matter.
I agreed with both points here, but the fact that it is such a blatant use of beliefs that (arguably) should be separate from policy is what's frustrating - and surely a good time to raise the issues related to this that aren't necessarily about beliefs.
re: Opus Dei, it's worth noting that it's not just Ruth Kelly blocking this, Blair (who's not O.D.) is also sticking his oar in.
Beliefs and policy...where does one begin and another end? It's been like this forever. I've stopped caring.
Well Opus Dei has nothing to do with this at all, it was Aladin who brought it in, as far as I know OD have started 600 odd iniatives in the past year that have helped various communities:
"and in the year 2005 they have cooperated with other people in setting up 608 social initiatives: schools and university residences (68%), technical or agricultural training (26%), universities, business schools and hospitals (6%). Worldwide revenue of Opus Dei is that of a mid-sized American diocese. And its numbers among bishops do not make it a potent force in the Church"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei#Opus_Dei_in_society
But of course they're just evil Christains!
In fact, for me, the core issue is what will happen if this legislation never goes through? Because it didn't come into effect when it should have, I could still be thrown out of a bar or refused service in a shop for being gay. There's a certain argument that this is always going to be at the manager's discretion and that the "evil nanny-state government" is taking away their right to select their clientele, but personally I think that my right to go out and have a drink like anyone else supercedes the managers right not to have gays in his bar.
And before you use the above sentence to claim they're not automatically bad either, I must remind you again that the Opus Dei is not an organisation representative of mainstream Catholicism. Indeed, most Catholics in Spain see the Opus Dei as little more than 'nutters'.
The Opus Dei is a brainwashing sect. Young, previously normal people have been brainwashed by the organisation and severed all ties with their families, friends and previous lives. Ex-members who have escaped the grasp of the sect have testified of young women being used for unpaid domestic service akin to semi slavery serving the homes of high rank OD officials. OP is well infilitrated in political circles, mostly in Spain but in other countries too, and peddling the most ultrafundamentalist branch of Catholicism imaginable.
I personally find it rather disturbing that one of its members should be in charge of such issues as social welfare and gay rights.